Administrator Nelson testifies before House Science Committee on NASA’s FY2022 Budget Request

Witnesses The Honorable Bill Nelson Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

What is said in the film

uh melanie stansberry uh represents the first district of new mexico she previously served in the new mexico house of representatives before that she served in the office of management and budget and she also has worked as a consultant at sandia national laboratory given our committee oversight of the national labs i think we will benefit greatly from her experience and i look forward to having her on this committee and i want to welcome her will you raise your hand so people know who you are okay thank you now the hearing will come to order and without objection the chair is authorized to declare recess at any time before i deliver my opening remarks i just want to say that since we are in person and virtual today i am delighted it's been a while since we've been here and i hope that we will continue to expand as we move along a couple of reminders though uh members and staff who are attending in person and our honor vaccinated against coping 19 must stay massed throughout the hearing on honor vaccinated members may remove their mask only during the question and answer of the five minute rule and you're on your own to make that determination uh members who are attending virtually should keep their video feed on as long as they are present in the hearing and members are responsible for their own microphone so please also keep your microphones mooted until you are speaking and finally if members have documents they wish to submit for the record please email them to the committee clerk whose email address was circulated prior to the hearing we have done it uh we want to say welcome and um and welcome back to our administrator i look forward to working with him and we're all delighted that we have a person that is familiar with the work of the committee and especially the work of space senator nelson served on our committee in fact he chaired the slave subcommittee for six years during which time that he flew into space uh about abroad uh the national space shuttle columbia and now we welcome him back today to testify before our committee as the national nasa administrator after a distinguished career in both the house and senate we look forward to his testimony and welcome again it is no secret to our colleagues that i am a strong supporter of nasa it is one of the crown jewels of our nation's r d enterprise and equally importantly it is a source of inspiration for our young people and indeed for people young and old around the world and i'm a texan where president johnson took the lead and heard the call from president kennedy to keep going with it because nasa turns daring aspirations into reality whether it is flying a helicopter above the dusty expanses of mars are pushing the boundaries of aeronautics research here on earth working with 14 other nations to build and operate an international space station in earth orbit a building a fleet a spacecraft to monetize challenging climate are searching for life elsewhere in the universe i'd like to say that the science space and technology committee is the committee for the future and i think that is equally true of nasa the dedicated men and women of nasa are helping create our future in space and here on earth and they should take great pride in both what they have accomplished today and in what they are striving to accomplish in the days and years ahead yet turning nasa's aspirations into reality will take more than determination or even good budgets for example to execute an ambitious national initiative like the atomous moon mars initiative will require clear goals and objectives thoughtful planning realistic scheduling and a creditable organizational and management structure and attention to the multitude of details that spell the differences between success and catastrophic failure and also critical uh to the success will be finding out as soon as possible where the problems are that need attention that is why i have argued that it is an early priority to carry out an independent review of the entire autonomous initiative so that you can take whatever corrective actions we need as soon as possible the lessons of the past are clear failing to uncover problems before the arbitrary schedule pressure inevitably winds up costing more in both money and delays and increased risk if congress is going to be asked to provide increased funding it first will need to have confidence in nasa's initiatives uh and it is critical that we see a path to success another issue needing attention in the future this international space station it will not last forever we need to know how long it will remain viably structurally and operationally we need a clear plan for transitioning to what comes next and we need to know what the future of the united states and its international partners in low-earth orbit should be especially given the reality of the new chinese space station i could go on but as i said these are very challenging times for nasa however make no mistake the committee wants nasa to succeed i hope that the days here will be just the start of a continuing dialogue and collaborations with you mr administrator and with that i want to again welcome you and look forward to your testimony the chair now recognizes my outstanding ranking member mr lucas thank you madam chair and before i start i want to thank you for holding this hybrid hearing and enabling members staff and administrator nelson to participate in person safely after a year and a half of virtual hearings i think i speak for the entire republican conference when i say it's good to be back doing the people's business in person so thank you madam chair today's hearing is important and timely for several years nasa has conducted a review after review of human space flight program although the overall goal to return u. s astronauts to the moon remains constant nasa has changed its plans on how to accomplish that goal several times over numerous reviews after numerous independent advisory groups like the national academies of science and the aerospace safety advisory panel have highlighted program stability is critical to ensuring overall mission success as administrator nelson knows congress has provided this consistency for nearly 20 years following the columbia accident investigation the cancellation of the shuttle and the development of deep space capacities despite the ebbs and flows of each new administration's priorities congress has maintained a steady course for the nation's space program that's why i was pleased to see that the biden administration is continuing the artemis program keeping our sights on returning to the moon in a manner that enables exploration of mars and beyond is paramount at this critical juncture the orion spacecraft was delivered to the kennedy space center last year and the space launch system was also recently delivered to kennedy space center after a successful green run it's exciting to see the sls being stacked with boosters in the vehicle assembly building as we speak nasa's exploration ground systems are working diligently to receive process and launch these critical national systems but more work remains nasa's human landing system procurement is stalled by gao protests everyone wants to get started on this critical piece of hardware but we must first let the process play out and adjust course based on gao's ruling and available funding i look forward to working with our colleagues in the senate and on the appropriations committees and in the administration to chart a path forward that enables the success of our space program the largest unknown looming on the horizon is the budget finding an extra 10 billion dollars for the human landing system is no easy task while the senate recently authorized an additional 10 billion dollars and required nasa to select an additional contractor if nasa doesn't get additional appropriated funding this could become an unfunded mandate that could end up with nasa having to cut billions of dollars from other programs i'm sure no one wants to see this happen that's why it's important for nasa to propose realistic plans budgets and schedules and not rely on hail mary passes to save the day other nations like china are making slow and steady progress and are following disciplined plans we must maintain steady support for our national space program so that the new frontiers in space will be explored by free nations not by oppressive regimes with that madam chair it is wonderful to be at the diocese with you and i yield back thank you very much uh at this time i'd like to introduce our witness uh senator bill nelson was sworn in as the 14th nasa administrator may the 3rd 2021 he is no stranger to this committee and congress having chaired the space and aeronautics subcommittee for six years and later serving as a ranking member on the state commerce science and transportation committee uh in the in the senate he served in the house for 13 years and was later elected three times to the u. s senate representing florida for 18 years senator nelson attended the university of florida and yale university he received a jd from the university of virginia after law school he served on active duty as captain in the u. s army he has served in public office over four decades in the state legislature as a state treasurer and in the u. s congress in 1986 he flew on space shuttle columbia as a payload specialist orbiting the earth 98 times over six days while conducting research experiments after leaving the senate he continued to be engaged in nassar activities serving on the nasa advisory council until his nomination of the national administrator we are delighted to have him here today administrator administrator nelson and we look forward to your testimony our witnesses should know you will have five minutes for the spoken testimony your written testimony will be included in the record or for the hearing and when you have completed your spoken testimony we begin with questions each member will have five minutes to ask the question so now administrator nelson you're recognized thank you madam chair uh if it looks like i'm smiling i am uh coming back into these halls brings back so many pleasant memories and so many cherished friendships most of these portraits i have served with and it's an outstanding committee i want to welcome the the new member of congress and madam chair if you're getting folks that are so uh experienced like your new member coming from sandia uh again it's just uh an example of the reputation of the members of this committee to be a very uh well-experienced and and very serious committee we're going back to the moon in preparation to go to mars and space is hard a lot of people focus in on the date about 2024 we're going back to the moon with humans in 2023.

it's going to be following the first launch which is at the end of this year 2021 the largest most powerful rocket ever the sls space launch system we are then going to hitch up with whoever is the winner of all the competitions after the gao makes its decision and we are in a blackout period now until august the 4th when the gao is going to determine uh whether or not the bid protest is successful all of this occurred before i was there but i'm here to defend what nasa has done but with regard to what's going forward we're not going to know until august the 4th when the gao decides pam melroy who i just swore in on monday now is with us as our deputy our number three in the agency is bob cabana also an astronaut commander as is pam uh he's long experienced in the administration in johnson then the head of stennis then the head of kennedy and well respected and the three of us are already trying to make the plans so that when the gao decides that we can move out quickly depending on what the gao decides as a legal matter now that's just the human exploration look what's already happened what american is not excited about perseverance and little ingenuity flying around all over the mars surface again a pinpoint landing but remember as the ranking member said remember it was followed by only the second nation to be able to land a rover successfully the chinese government the chinese space program did that and they have a very aggressive program and uh we got to be aware of that they're putting a series of landers on the south pole of the moon so are we it's called the clips program it's the c stands for commercial we're gonna go down there to the south pole why because there's water down there and it's frozen and when you have water that means you've got oxygen and you've got fuel hydrogen so both of our nations are going down there but the fact that they are planning this just beware look at what's happening in the earth science and the planetary science we just announced uh five great observatories that are going to go to venus we haven't been to venus in 30 years why venus you think of it the sun the next planet is mercury it's hot the next planet is venus and it's covered with a shroud of clouds and that's caused it to heat up so much that it can melt lead on the surface the next planet is earth it has a habitable atmosphere the next planet is mars and it has a very thin atmosphere now what is it about mars and about venus do they have the chemical compositions that they could have had life because after all this universe has been developing for 13 and a half billion years and i'll conclude with this madam chairman another part of our science we're sending up in november this telescope it's going out of french uh guyana on an ariane rocket it's about a nine billion dollar telescope and it is going to peer back to the light source 13. 35 billion years that's only 150 million years after the big bang which is the beginning of the very cosmic systems and we're going to be able to capture that light that has been traveling all those billions of years and find out things that we've never found out before we found out a lot from hubble which is still up there trying to work that's the excitement of what is going and finally madam chairman earth science in every one of your pockets is that cell phone which i forgot to turn off and it has a camera that we all use that camera is on a chip and that camera was developed by nasa to observe the earth to get the precision measurements because of what's happening to our planet if you want to mitigate the climate you got to measure and that's what nasa does thank you madam chair thank you very much we now will begin our first round of questions and i will recognize myself for five minutes administrator nelson you have often discussed your concerns about china's ambitions and advancements in space and it's clear that with sustained planning and and methodical preparation they have made steady and major progress they successfully landed on the far side of the moon they have returned lunar samples to the earth they landed a rover on the surface of mars and they are establishing a small space station on low earth orbit and they indicated that they are planning for human landings and outposts on the moon china clearly is in space for the long term and we need to recognize that and respond accordingly to me that doesn't mean undertaking a crash program with unrealistic timetables but it does mean that in human space flight nasa needs to focus its efforts and develop a clear planning program to achieve these goals set by successive administrations and authorizations namely return to the moon as necessary steps toward the ultimate goal of landing humans on mars nasa needs to develop that plan and program now because they aren't unlimited resources and we really can't afford to pursue nice to have projects at the expense of neglecting essential tasks to date the committee has been has seen has not seen such a plan for the autonomous initiative and it's not because we have an ask for it i am not blaming you because you just settled in nasa but what can we expect to see and when can we expect to see the plan of the program and how do we get how we're going to get to mars as well as what specifically we will need to accomplish uh getting to the moon uh on the moon august the 4th madam chairman uh once we know the direction legally as a result of gao i will have a plan to announce uh according to what their decision is uh in order to try to have us there as quickly and as safely and as efficiently as possible well let's be realistic uh a lot of people don't know that uh for example what the source selection board uh uh picking out of the existing uh competitors uh nasa had asked for 3. 5 uh 3. 4 billion dollars for that competition uh the award of appropriations was 850 million and so the source selection board uh back before i came in decided that they didn't have enough money and that they would award it to one of the three competitors that award the concept is that nasa's vehicle the sls with its spacecraft on top orion will take the crew to lunar orbit and then in lunar orbit there will be the transfer of the crew into the landing vehicle and that will go down to the surface they'll do their mission they'll come back and then orion will return with the crew to the earth that's one concept there are other concepts to put up a gateway which is a mini space station in lunar orbit and that is being planned as an international station that you will take the crew to that they will then transfer into a lunar landing vehicle so they're different plans what was awarded was just for one demonstration but there needs to be a landing each year for a dozen years so there are many more awards to come if you all decide that it's in the interest of the united states to appropriate that money and of course the appropriation starts right here in this committee with the authorization so that's about as succinct as i can tell you madam chair thank you very much my time has expired i'm now recognize mr lucas thank you madam chair and continuing with the the chairs uh line of questioning and i acknowledge the chinese are making steady progress on their exploration goals and i think it's very important we maintain our momentum so in that vein i ask you this director within the confines of what you've just discussed are you confident that the fy 22 budget request which has proposed reductions in the hls program are you confident that that's capable of getting us back to the lunar surface by and i'll go farther than that to say part of our challenge here in appropriations even if we're successful there's still that little creature called omb and there's still that process of the administration uh as pulling as we push uh we need a little more push over there well we're pulling on this side do you believe the 2022 budget request is enough to do what we need to get done and by the way you can strike out 2024 give me a number for a date uh mr ranking member in your state and my state we have an expression uh there are more ways than one to skin a cat so i've talked directly to omb about the additional money for us to have the robust competition that we want to have these sustained landings over a dozen years and that's going to cost some more money so i've said to them well you all are going to consider a jobs bill and infrastructure bill and by the way i hadn't even talked about the desperate needs of of nasa on dilapidated infrastructure which is also jobs and so if you all put together a jobs bill that's another way of funding otherwise you look at the request and that's your your question is the president's request it is a very robust nasa request it's over a six percent increase and look at what's happened in the increases in science and stem education uh in aeronautics by by the way we hadn't even talked about the first a in nasa which is aeronautics a lot of exciting things going there i'll be happy to answer your questions along that line nasa has a very vast portfolio programs and it's always challenging to keep all those plates spinning at once i mean i'm not sure the general public appreciates you've got deep space exploration you've got low earth orbit operations you've got planetary science astronomy astrophysics earth science heliophysics biology physical sciences and aeronautics among many of those components how you going to keep all those plates balanced mr administrator i have faith in you that's a challenge with the dollars you have available well i agree with you but i'll tell you why is nasa consistently thought of by the american public as the most popular government agency and why does nasa have very little turnover compared to other agencies it's because the people are so incredibly talented and because of the mission they're fairly happy and so obviously i'm not doing this it's they are doing that one last question mr administrator in your time in the senate you were an incredible champion of the development the space launch system and the orion spacecraft part of of course enabling long-term sustained exploration of deep space and you advocate for using existing hardware facilities workforces smooth transition systems all very logical do you envision nasa using sls and orion past the initial artemis missions in reality yes because artemis is a program to go back to the moon but that's just the goal is going to mars uh because once we get there we're going to dig down into that regolith and hopefully in the meantime have a sample return mission by the way that's another thing that the chinese government is trying to do and is planning to do and to see what happened to mars is there still in that water is there any indication that there was life so the goal is mars so the answer specifically on the sls is it's going to be used as the workhorse probably in lunar orbit to then fashion together whatever this new technology that we developed to go to mars is going to look like hopefully faster than we can go now which is 8-10 months by the time you get there you gotta be on the surface for a year or two because of the realignment of the planets in order to get back if you can sprint there faster you can stay on the surface weeks a month and then sprint back but all of those technologies we still have to develop so yes the answer to your question is the yes the sls will be a workhorse for the future thank you mr administrator and i'd simply note we on this committee i think i can say in a bipartisan way are going to pull as hard as we can you're our guy in the administration to push as we pull with that i yield back madam chair thank you very much mr buyer is now recognized thank you madam chair very much and uh senator administrator i really appreciate your coming uh i apologize for the noise i'm at the back of national cathedral awaiting the uh the john warner service um but i'm really grateful to be moved up a little bit administrator we're very supportive of the deep space exploration program as to moon as a stepping stone to mars and you actually asked answered my first question already with your promise after the gao report on august 4th and your new timeline but but i didn't actually ask the question so let me at least get that out on record that with the gao report on the nasa lunar programs they noted several several challenges that nasa's minimizing requirements for mission success for some programs the nasa lacks top-level artemis requirements and associated risks that nasa is relying on key technologies that are still at very immature levels the nasa hasn't defined management roles and responsibilities or documented decisions on management practices the nasa law demands the system's integration across divisions and then in addition the aerospace safety advisory council has identified concerns regarding systems engineering integration lack of clear roles responsibilities accountability especially for hls so are you sure you want this job mr chairman that report was written before some of the changes that had occurred so uh parts of that report are dated and yes mr chairman uh i really am uh am excited about this job and ready to tackle this challenge and finally let me say that john warner was a a special mentor to me he was our chairman of the senate armed services committee and i grew to love him and so i'm glad you're there at his funeral at the national cathedral and one more question in the few seconds i have left is one of the big concerns will be on space traffic management and orbital debris it even came up in the president biden putin conversations um we know that nasa has all the data they're measuring but that you're not a regulatory agency how do you see nasa fitting into the ultimate solution on space traffic management uh nasa has to be involved because it's our astronauts that are at risk you put up more junk like china did 10 years ago when they blew to smithereens a target satellite when they were testing their asap you put up junk like that tens of thousands of pieces then human life is definitely threatened in low earth orbit which is where our international space station is so mr chairman nasa is going to be involved one way or another as a matter of fact we're working on technology that will help us get those pieces of debris out and get them slowed down enough so that gravity will take over bring them back in through the fiery heat of reentry that'll burn them up uh we work of course with the space force used to be the air force that tracks all of the objects that are about that that big or bigger what i worry about are objects that are smaller i remember we looked outside the window on our flight this is 36 years ago and there was a washer floating right along with us as i looked out the window if if something even that small were to hit at a different angle on a space suit in a in a space walk or or even a window of the iss it could be catastrophe so nasa's got to be involved in space debris thank you thank you sir posey uh thank you madam sherman and thank you for holding this important hearing today about nasa's fiscal year 2022 budget proposal administrator nelson will help nasa remain a leader in our nation's future space endeavors including our deep space exploration program that will return american astronauts to the moon and beyond on american hardware i'm also delighted that administrator nelson appointed nasa kennedy space center's director bob cabana to be the new associate administrator and and congratulations to you again administrator nelson on your unanimous confirmation to your job as a former senator from florida you're keenly aware of the importance of nasa centers in 2010 you were one of the leading champions of using existing shuttle hardware workforce and facilities to develop sls after the cancellation of the shuttle your rationale at the time was to prevent an exodus of talent and smooth the transition from one system to another while the space coast certainly experienced its share of hardship during that period of time we've seen significant progress made at the kennedy space center in many areas exploration ground systems are preparing for the first launch of sls and and the center has adopted a multi-user spaceport approach to accommodate multiple commercial users which many people never imagined could possibly happen not that long ago can you speak to what progress has been made and what you see for the future at the kennedy space center and our human space flight program congressman my home congressman uh representing uh the space coast and it's a place that i grew up it's a place that my grandparents under the homestead act in the early part of the last century actually homesteaded worked the land and under the homestead act if you worked the land for four years continuously the government would deed you 160 acres i have a copy of that deed signed by woodrow wilson to my grandmother and that 160 acres today is at the north end of the space shuttle runway at the kennedy space center so thank you congressman for your representation the kennedy space center and the cape canaveral space force station has unlimited possibilities the place is throbbing with excitement all those old abandoned launch pads from the early days of gemini and mercury and apollo and all the various other military missions abandoned paths they are coming to life they are launching new rockets in addition it is as you stated a multi-use spaceport and we are seeing the blending of the commercial operations along with the government operations both military intelligence and civilian and i give you as much detail as you want but it's an exciting future and that's happening at all the nasa centers and facilities uh take for example uh wallops a launch facility in virginia most of people live in maryland uh it is uh just exciting with all of the medium weight launches that they are doing from there so there are unlimited possibilities all over the united states uh with the recent achievement of getting a core stage vertical and stack between assad rocket boosters and the vab has nasa have been able to use that as a major milestone to help set a launch date for artemis artemis is going to go in november that's the uh that's the schedule we know that space is hard and you don't want to do it uh not in a safe manner so it's always possible there's going to be delays but by the way madam chair i think you all ought to have a codel to come down and see the most powerful rocket ever this rocket is as tall as the saturn v but it puts a punch out of much greater liftoff thrust than anything that's ever launched on planet earth i thank you for your leadership administrator nelson i'm sure i yield back thank you very much miss bonamici thank you so much chairwoman johnson ranking member lucas thank you administrator nelson for your leadership we have the opportunity and the imperative to implement bold comprehensive science-based policies to address the climate crisis and nasa can play an important role in that work earth science observations are essential for mapping and monitoring hazards from the climate crisis including the drought conditions extreme heat and wildfires were experienced in the pacific northwest today i'm particularly alarmed with a recent study from nasa and noaa that found that the amount of heat the earth traps has roughly doubled since 2005. so as co-chair of the house oceans caucus i know that without bold action to address the climate crisis the ocean will continue to take the heat for us and the warming temperatures as you know administrator nelson are resulting in more frequent weather extreme weather events ocean acidification and the loss of biodiversity so during your time in your tenure in the senate i'm grateful for your work to expand scientific research monitoring and adaptation measures for harmful algal blooms habs and hypoxia we've seen this issue in the the warm blob off the pacific coast in lake okeechobee and florida and lakes and rivers across the country we need more accurate information to help predict and mitigate habs so how can the pace mission help accelerate our understanding of harmful algal blooms and how can these observations contribute to the goals of the u.

n decade of ocean science for sustainable development may i give you some additional information in addition to answering pace yes of course i do have another question so i want to leave time for that thank you administrator you want to ask your next question i'll no i'll wait till you're you're okay first of all you cannot mitigate uh you cannot mitigate what's happening to the climate unless you can measure correct and we are uniquely situated a lot of people don't know that nasa all of that those assets up there nasa designs them builds them launches them and noah operates them and of course look at the accuracy of weather predictions now and it's going to get a lot better because not only are we relying on the earth sensing spacecraft that are up there now over the next 10 years we're putting up five great observatories it's a two and a half billion dollar project over a decade they're going to measure anything that is happening with the land the water the ice and the atmosphere and they're going to put together a 3d composite of all this information interrelated with all the other assets we have up there to help us fine-tune our understanding of what is happening to our planet terrific i look forward to working with you and dr spinrad at noaa on on that important issue uh thank you administrator nelson and i know nasa recognizes the need to invest in our next generation and also the importance of a diverse workforce so this budget would strengthen the office of stem engagement after the previous administration tried multiple times to terminate the program i'm the co-founder of the steam caucus and also a fan of katie coleman the astronaut who played a flute duet from the international space station so i want to recognize nasa for the recent partnership with lego education to distribute steam curriculum because integrating the arts into stem curriculum has shown to improve academic outcomes and engagement and boost creativity i urge the office of steaming stem engagement to continue developing similar initiatives and i want to ask how if you could please talk about how that office of stem engagement will foster a future innovative workforce and also improve diversity at nasa thank you to the congress that when it was zeroed out in previous budgets you all always restored the education for science technology engineering and mathematics what is happening is this particular proposed budget has a very robust increase in that every one of your congressional districts has a university or a community college that has got some stem grants for students it's especially now nasa is not the only agency that does that but nasa is unique in our stem projects because what gets kids excited about those subjects space flight and so we are uniquely positioned and that's why we utilize our astronauts so much not just to fly in space and do all of the critical stuff but to go out to colleges universities and high schools to talk to kids to get them excited and so we are really uh between pam and bob and me we are really going to push stem education and uh i think you'll be pleased and again thank you for restoring it every time it got zeroed out in the past thank you administrator my time has expired i yield back thank you madam chair thank you very much that was good news to you mr babin yes ma'am thank you madam chair and thank you administrative senator administrator nelson appreciate you being here president biden's first budget you've already addressed some of this but i just kind of like to get it on the record his first budget request is 445 million lower than the trump administration's last budget request 2. 39 billion below what the trump administration proposed for fy22 and 7. 757 billion below the fy 22-25 budget proposed by the trump administration the proposed cuts from exploration are very staggering while the biden administration expressed support for continuing the artemis program to return u. s astronauts to the moon by 2024 this year's request cuts 14. 5 billion over the next four years from the exploration research and development account that would fund the human landing system and necessary lunar surface capabilities specifically the budget request cuts 3.

193 billion from the hls budget proposed by president trump for fy 22 and a total of 10. 05 billion from the trump administration's fy21 request for hls for the fy 2225. i know what you said about the old saying because we have that same old saying in texas too uh there's more than one way you can skin a cat but just for the record uh are you saying there will be no no cuts of any programs in the program itself of for artemis because of these cuts if we are the beneficiary of your uh generosity there definitely won't be remember what i said a few minutes ago uh it was a 3. 4 billion dollar request for human space flight for the expiration part the congress appropriated 850 million and so you can only get so many pounds of potatoes out of a five-pound sack amen and if you all are generous whatever vehicle you use and including the jobs bill is an alternative uh then we're going to try to rev it up mr ranking member all right sir thank you uh in the late 90s congress passed the commercial space act of 1992. this was before my time here on the committee in a little after your time the law contained a provision called anchor tenancy that allowed nasa to enter into multi-year contracts for the purchase of a good or service if the administrator determines that the good or service meets the agency mission requirements the commercially procured good or service is cost effective the good of our service is procured through a competitive process existing or potential customers for the good or service other than the united states government have been specifically identified the long-term viability of the venture is not dependent upon a continued government market or other non-reimbursable government support and private capital is at risk in the in the venture has nasa specifically identified other customers for human landers or space suits that would make these commercial ventures viable without nasa funding we always value competition because you get the best product the most efficient way at the least cost all those other procurement things that you just talked about i don't know about those but i'll find out okay uh but i know what i just said is the goal yes sir okay number three i think i still got time i proudly represent the johnson space center in houston home to mission control the iss program and astro materials acquisition and curation facility and where the world's leading experts and space suits reside you served as the chairman of the space subcommittee here in the house and represented the kennedy space center in the senate uh so i am assured that you understand how centers play a unique role in your space enterprise can you give us assurance that nasa will not attempt to relocate outsource or degrade any of these world-class irreplaceable capabilities remember i looked at my role in the senate was i not only represented the kennedy space center i had to represent all of nasa and indeed have spent a good bit of time training at the johnson space center and yes i can give you uh some information that'll reduce your heartburn uh and indeed uh the the space suit program is intended to stay at johnson sounds good to me mr administrator thank you very much and i yield back madam chairs thank you very much ms stevens is recognized thank you madam chair and uh thank you mr administrator for uh your just very lovely oral testimony i i also uh very much enjoyed your written testimony and and just for the record here i i want to quote the quote that you provided which was in your conversation with our president on a phone call to to nasa jet propulsion laboratory the president said we can land a rover on mars we can beat a pandemic and with science hope and vision there's not a damn thing we can't do as a country and here we sit back in this room uh with with our proverbs quote where there is no vision the people will perish and so mr administrator we are so grateful and blessed for your tremendous vision of nasa and uh your understanding of the assets and the things that make it go round and that are going to continue to help our country to to lead into the future and even before the covet 19 uh crisis uh mr administrator uh a 2020 nasa and inspector general report stated that the u.

s industrial base is not as robust as it used to be making it difficult to find qualified technicians and suitable suppliers could you tell me how serious of a problem this is for nasa and nasa's supply chain and if you've thought about coming to michigan to see our incredible supply chain assets where we brag not only do we put the world on wheels we are helping to send men and eventually a woman into outer space and and the moon thank you ma'am if you will invite me i will be there sounds like a plan and i'm i'm looking forward to going to many of your districts uh because the the strength of our country indeed that is reflected in an organization like this is out there and your specific thing about uh suppliers uh that's a huge strength now we got to be careful because some of our supplies we are now dependent on of getting internationally and some rare metals and materials we are finding are in other countries that may not be necessarily friendly to us that's a supply chain not only for nasa for the whole of government but uh let me just put it this way if if you think back when we were challenged before and the soviets took the high ground and they shocked us out of our wits with sputnik and then with gagarin first in orbit and they even got titoff in orbit before and we could only get alan shepard and gus grissom into sub-orbit and then that all changed with john glenn who knew that he had a 20 chance of failure on that atlas icbm and it worked and then the nation said we've got a goal evoked by a very young and inspirational president and we did it and what happened to the country was extraordinary because we talk about stem education for generations the excitement of achieving that goal not only rippled through our society in spin-offs but also in science and technology and engineering and mathematics that led to the technological revolution that we are now beneficiaries of yeah i suspect that what's going to happen if we can get people really excited about us going back to the moon and on to mars that we're going to see a similar kindling of that excitement that will produce an educational revolution again sure and and we're certainly already seeing that diversification in a place where i call home where the companies that produce the tubes that went into the auto engines are now producing the tubes that go into our rocket ship so i gave him extra time to answer because i like listening to the administrator talk so much but i will get back to you on questions for the record and yield back the remainder of my time thanks madam chair thank you very much mr gonzalez thank you madam chair uh ranking member and uh the honorable mr nelson for for being here uh and i do want to thank the the chair and ranking member for showing an example of how a committee should operate uh it's always a pleasure to be on this committee because we actually work together quite productively so i i appreciate their leadership um administrator nelson i have the pleasure of representing northeast ohio and the glenn research center is just outside my district i hope to host you there someday and as you know they've been working hard on uh the power and propulsion element uh for gateway uh with their their technology and development in solar electric propulsion uh which will be demonstrated on gateway and will be critical for future moon and mars missions gateway is also international partners to the moon much as the much as the iss has done for low earth orbit with the recent announcement from china and russia and their active efforts to court international partners for their lunar research station i believe gateway is more important than ever can you please discuss the budget requests for gateway and how this request will keep gateway on schedule to remain a key part of artemis and how nasa will continue to partner with both industry and our international allies on gateway the budget request for gateway is pretty good and why gateway because when you put in effect a small space station in lunar orbit then you can do a whole bunch of things in our preparation to go to mars number one it becomes a way station uh for us to go down to the moon and do all the things that we're doing down there and all of that is necessary in the preparation of getting us able to sustain human life to go all the way to mars and come back but on gateway you can continue research in addition to what in the future will be commercial space stations in low earth orbit that will supersede the international space station which i hope will go on until 2030 and i request that of you that you extend the life of the iss to 2030. but gateway will have additional research related to further deep space but then what it does also it allows us to prepare to go to mars because it is quite likely that we would then outside of the lunar space station be the area where we would put together the components of whatever is the new technology that would take us as a spacecraft all the way to mars and land with humans and return so it's going to have a number of functions and it's important excellent i want to shift towards auditing and china investments i know this is a big priority of yours you've shared repeatedly your concern about the the rapid development of the chinese space program and the challenges this will present to u. s leadership some of this includes china's efforts to work around our laws and leverage their investments into companies to give them additional insights such as board observer seats into technology being developed in partnership with the us we've seen that across a number of industries but in particular here my question is as we continue to invest more resources into nasa and other r d agencies how is nasa ensuring that new startups to the space market who are seeking government government investment haven't already received funding from the chinese government well i certainly hope um that we have the consultations with the department of defense and the intelligence community uh i have been surprised uh i thought i knew a lot about nasa coming in but what i found out is we are much more involved in understanding the and participating in the protection of our assets from foreign intrusion that i knew about before and it is certainly important that we continue that the threats from abroad now are so multiple and happening every day not the least of which are the cyber threats as well and that is a daily concern yes sir and i i look forward to continuing this conversation hopefully offline i think we have to do everything we can to make sure that whatever we are funding at the federal level whether that's at the universities or or at nasa is not being appropriate and then moved over to our foreign competitors and with that i yield back thank you very much mr bowman of new york thank you madam chairwoman and thank you administrator nelson for your testimony today uh as you just discussed with representative bonamici the work that nasa does is so important in capturing the imaginations of our young people i saw it all the time as an educator where i spent 20 years of my career before coming to congress and i continue to see it in congress in fact i just heard from a rising high school senior in my district named nathaniel who talked about how important it is for him to him that nasa has an adequate r d budget he wants to make sure we're staying on track to get to mars and asks me to think of the students who may become the next generation of aerospace engineers can you tell us a little bit more about your approach to expanding nasa's stem engagement work how do we make sure that we're reaching out to students like nathaniel in every community including marginalized communities and nurturing their aspirations yes sir congressman right off the bat the president's budget is a robust increase in stem and this particular public servant joined by pam and bob have this as one of our main drivers because of the value to our country it's the value to our agency as well we have a very highly educated agency we are then an extension of your question we are constantly out looking for diversity as well uh i want to commend to your attention uh a good example of that that occurred in the past as you came out of mercury and gemini and apollo almost all those astronauts were white men test pilots but coming along with the space shuttle you didn't need to have test pilots for every astronaut position and nasa actually went with a lady who advised them how to go about and recruit women and minorities her name is michelle nichols and she was the actress that played lieutenant uhura on star trek and as a result the african-american community had a tremendous identification with her and as nasa was recruiting astronauts for the space shuttle program she reached out to the minority uh institutions hbcus to women and that first class of space shuttle astronauts 1978 was suddenly an astronaut class that looked very diverse especially compared to the previous test pilots uh and it was successful and so we are now extending that and i can go into the detail on that uh further if you'd like well well not at this time but i i appreciate you sharing that and i really want to encourage uh you to to think younger um you know we have kids who uh african americans uh and latinos and people of color uh dreaming about being astronauts in in places in my district like the bronx and mount vernon uh and yonkers and if we begin to think of stem uh through the lens of beginning in middle school uh from grades six through twelve and putting kids on the pathway beginning at that time i i think that that would that would be tremendous and please target title one schools uh and the communities that surround them i think you would get a great diversity uh there um i have one quick uh last question uh mr administrator uh can you speak a little bit about uh nasa's work with private contractors uh we got to the moon uh without private contractors if i'm not mistaken and now it seems like a lot of things are being contracted out to private old and private institutions like spacex can you talk about just just sort of the buying balance there and reliance on private contractors versus uh nasa uh continuing to serve as a public good if you will in the apollo program mr congressman we got to the moon with american corporations uh they did all the work nasa supervised nasa had a reason to supervise it because nasa's responsibility is to make sure that it is safe particularly when you put humans strapped into all of that explosive potential and uh we're just continuing in a different way now why are why is it a different way well back in 2010 i had the privilege in a bipartisan way with senator kay bailey hutchinson of nasa was kind of at a at a dead still not knowing where it was going and we said we ought to have a nasa program a government program but we also ought to have a commercial program and it ought to be dual track and that was the nasa bill of 2010. that was passed unanimously in the senate and it was passed in the house by a three-quarters vote and that's the track that we're on you see that already implemented that we now have a commercial carriers of both cargo and crew to the international space station that has been going on for years now now we're going to have a blending of the government and the commercial as we go back to the moon and eventually as we continue out into the cosmos thank you so much madam chair yield back thank you very much mr walsh thank you madam chair and and uh thank you administrator for being here today over here sir there you are there we go you all right hey i just want to talk to you for a moment about um the growing and very concerning chinese dominance in space as i'm sure you know the uh the chinese communist party is openly talking about replacing the united states as a preeminent space power they've launched more rockets and satellites into space last year than the rest of the world combined including the united states they just manned its space station brand spanking new uh and uh openly talking about replacing the international space station 10 000 satellite constellation they're on track an agreement with russia to put a uh to put a research station on the moon growing anti-satellite capabilities would you agree that we the united states cannot continue to be number one on earth if we're number two in space first of all congressman from florida thank you thank you for your representation the united states ought to be preeminent in space we i couldn't just in the interest of time i i couldn't agree more that what has me scratching my head why we have a half billion dollar cut in the president's proposed nasa budget a three uh 75 percent cut to the human lander center to the uh to the human landing system excuse me have you spoken with the vice president about when her first meeting with the national space council will occur do you know when that's going to occur may i answer your formal questions first absolutely uh we have a 6. 4 increase in the overall nasa budget and the cut to which you refer is a result of the congress making the decision uh that the request was for the artemis program 3.

4 billion dollars in last year's uh in this current year's uh budget and you didn't give 3. 4 the appropriation was 850 million so given the eggs that i'm presented in the basket i'm trying to get us there and get us there quick and so uh i have said earlier in the hearing that there are more ways to do it if you all are considering a jobs bill uh there's an r d component of the jobs bill as well as infrastructure and it would be very very helpful if you could consider those increases absolutely i think you'll certainly see support from this foxhole we have to put the first american woman and the next american man on the moon and to do that we need a viable landing system so i certainly think you'll see the support in this committee fight will be ongoing with the appropriators but i i want to uh see nasa's support uh for that for that as well and yes congressman i have spoken to the vice president uh and i look forward to her leadership in the council i'll be meeting with her next week and uh i expect that as the nasa administrator that i will take a very active role on the national space council mr administrator do you support the wolf amendment uh which as you know prohibits bilateral cooperation with the national space council including nasa china with china chinese owned companies do you support sustaining the wolf amendment and if so making it permanent it is the law and i support it that is fantastic to hear and finally um do you support making it permanent mister yes sir and that doesn't mean that we can't find areas of cooperation and those areas are deconfliction of space assets running into each other trying to get them to participate in getting rid of all that space junk uh that's why i was very uh rather abrupt uh in my comments about when they had the return of a whole big rocket and it wasn't controlled uh and it threatened populations now fortunately it ended up falling in the indian ocean but it could have fell in europe or somewhere in the middle east so i have been very harsh in my commentary about the chinese not doing those kind of things including the space debris thank you madam chairwoman i yield my time thank you very much chair now rex now as our newest member ms stanberry thank you madam chairwoman and thank you ranking member and to all my colleagues it's truly an honor to be here to serve on this committee with you all thank you for allowing me to serve and i'm especially excited and honored to be able to be here today with our administrator senator and also i wanted to say as a former federal employee thank you to nasa employees staff and researchers for the important work that you do we so appreciate you nasa's work is critical of course not only to taking us to the far reaches of space but also for understanding our planet here at home and particularly our understanding of our planetary systems and climate change and how that's transforming our communities and in new mexico my home state that of course is being manifest in terms of chronic drought extreme fires and really an uncertain future and so i am tremendously excited to see the increases for the earth sciences program and nasa in this budget because i think they're extremely important but nasa madam chairwoman is also extremely important as an economic engine for all of our states and particularly in new mexico where we have a very large aerospace industry that is growing daily and that we are working hard to grow and is a powerhouse in its own right in in aerospace also of course nasa is a leader in advancing research and innovation and american competitiveness in general and in growing our stem workforce and i believe madam chairwoman that we are at a critical inflection point in our country in our history and in our future in restoring science to its proper place and informing our decision making in growing and diversifying our stem workforce and our economy and in deploying science to tackle our biggest challenges especially in global climate change and so madam chair mr administrator my question is really focused on nasa's view of our home planet and particularly the role that nasa plays in climate change madam chair mentioned in her opening that i'm a former employee of omb and one of my duties there was actually working on the landsat program and one of the significant tensions that we always found with nasa's budget was imbalancing the space missions and the earth-based missions that nasa has and so as i said i was very pleased to see the increase in earth sciences and so mr administrator i'd like to hear more about how you see nasa's role in the earth sciences and advancing our understanding of climate change and how that fits into the biden administration's overall climate science agenda there is a 300 million dollar increase in science in this nasa budget earth science is a major part of that that in addition to the present unbelievable instruments that we have up in orbit measuring very precisely what is happening to the earth's climate uh it was just announced that we are going to put up a series of five great observatories over the course of the next decade the first is a joint one with india that will occur in january of next year and these five great observatories are all going to collate their information and talk to each other in a 3d dimension of what's happening to our earth by looking at land water ice and the atmosphere that is going to bring us a new dimension of information in addition to our very precise instruments that are remotely sensing what's happening on the earth so the scientific world is quite excited about not only what's happening in planetary science as we project out but what we are doing with regard to understanding what is happening here our own planet thank you and madam chairwoman and mr administrator um in the interest of time i would just like to also echo many of the words that we heard today about diversifying our stem workforce and our aerospace workforce a recent study issued by this committee showed that the ratio of men to women in aerospace and that nasa is still three to one and persons of color are still outnumbered three to one in our federal workforce in this in this space as well and i think it's critical that we get more women and people of color serving in our federal agencies and in the industry and with that thank you madam chair i yield back thank you very much madam chair may i just uh point out that the next two senate confirmed positions in nasa the deputy pam melroy and the cfo margaret voe schaus is both female 1 thank you very much mr bear yeah thank you madam chair and good morning to everyone and thank you ranking member lucas as well as administrator nelson we really appreciate you being here and participating in this meeting you know i'm fortunate enough to have purdue university in my district it has a strong history of educating astronauts and producing scientists and engineers that work at nasa so it is as you mentioned earlier it is extremely important that the united states remain a leader in science and innovation particularly in space as china and russia team up and build their space programs the necessity to remain competitive has also become a point of national security so i would like to i'd like to go to russia first they've indicated that they may withdraw from the international space station partnership uh if sanctions are not lifted against that nation uh you recently had a conversation with dmitry rogozin uh the director of the general ro cosmos uh and the russian space agency uh so i'm my questions are do you really believe or do you feel that russia will remain in the international space station if these sanctions are not lifted a second question do you have any idea what the cost to operate the international space station might be and then in the final years of the russian mrr station efforts were made to privatize the platform what would prevent russia from privatizing their segment of the international space station so congressman thank you for that question i want to address it comprehensively uh first of all you said you represent purdue purdue back in my day produced almost as many astronauts as did the u. s naval academy and i i wouldn't be surprised if it hadn't surpassed all other universities we appreciate that recognition thank you sir i have had three conversations with dmitry rogozin last week i was quite concerned as you have expressed in your question uh was there uh because of these comments that were coming out of russia were they going to uh about face and break the partnership that we've had with russia when it was the soviet union in 1975 when an american spacecraft and a russia and a soviet spacecraft rendezvoused and docked and they lived together for nine days in space and we've had that cooperation ever since and it's very evident on the international space station because there's always a russian crew there's always an american crew on board so the first indication was actually in the nbc interview of president putin when he spoke glowingly about and that came a day after i had my first conversation with ragosa and putin spoke glowingly about the cooperation in space particularly on the space station so in the second conversation with ragosan he confirmed that and in the third conversation we had actually participated i virtually on a panel uh international panel that they were having the conference in uh saint petersburg russia and uh we had additional information from that com conference that confirmed what we were seeing and then the final thing is uh they're getting ready in just a couple of months to put up a major another major russian component to the space station so why would they be doing that and just a few years going to abandon it it didn't make sense and so uh i have a much changed uh attitude about i think we are going to see the continued cooperation however your question is further it's what about russia and china teaming up and i think we've got to watch that i i think as i said in my opening comments uh china is very aggressive in its uh chinese government space program and as a result uh we got to be concerned about that uh and if russia is giving them a lot of their technology on rockets uh uh that's something we got to be concerned about and and they're talking about going to the south pole of the moon and that's where the water is the water ice so indeed thank you for raising that congressman thank you for your response appreciate it very much and i yield back thanks madam chair mr administrator good to see you yes sir um i don't want you to forget about the university of colorado that has produced a lot of astronauts as well very true so um obviously you've been involved with a lot more appropriations than i have over the years but i think the challenge the competition with china potentially russia uh offers us some opportunities not to really mix civilian and military but to find some other pockets that might want to support our space program and and all the phases of it so you know for me i i don't want to see this as a zero-sum game that human exploration takes from earth science and earth science takes from planetary science and everything takes away from heliophysics um and i do think the fact that there is some serious competition now uh will give you a lot of opportunities and i just want to raise my hand i'm i i'd be willing to work with armed services or anybody else to help you have the budgets that will allow us to be preeminent uh continue to be preeminent in the space program because i already gave you one of these bumper stickers and this committee i drive them crazy cause i talk about getting our astronauts amen um getting our astronauts to mars by 2033 and as you said the orbital mechanics make that a very good time to do it saves a lot of travel time so can you explain to us how you see the artemis program helping facilitate us getting to mars by 2033 or in that time frame congressman i don't think the united states wants to be second in anything and although we were on the surface of the moon about 55 years ago we said we're going back and it is part of a greater mission to go further and that's to mars but mindful that we are seeing competitors that are being very aggressive that i think is going to create the juices flowing and i believe competition is always good and uh that means we better be trained and disciplined and ready so you've mentioned and i think you've uh answered it in a couple questions um having uh nasa in effect participate in the infrastructure bill that it be part of the jobs plan or something how do you see uh and and i agree with you by the way uh how do you see uh nasa fitting into say an infrastructure plan nasa at a minimum has 5. 4 billion dollars of desperate infrastructure needs the building down at michoud which is a part of the marshall space center but this located in uh new orleans that's where we're assembling the first stage of the sls rocket the building has holes in the roof and so it's emblematic of infrastructure that has not and it's not just nasa it's everything look at the roads and the bridges nasa has a need for that and if you all do a jobs bill i hope you would consider nasa in that job spill and i think you're going to find this committee uh despite them you know me making them all crazy with some of the things i have to say we work very well together and i think you're going to get a lot of support from us both sides of the aisle in whether it's an infrastructure issue or you know putting the building blocks into place to get to mars let me ask you one last question uh heliophysics so we passed a space weather bill signed by president trump last year i was a little bit disappointed to see sort of the heliophysics part of the budget uh reduced uh in this year just as we're getting this new legislation in place and would like to see that plused up in some fashion or another any comment but that heliophysics is part of a budget that was increased by 300 million that's the science part of the budget and planetary science uh is a big part of that and we've got to understand a lot of the stuff on heliophysics because when we send astronauts back to the moon you have a solar explosion on the moon and all that radiation is coming we've got to have a way to know in advance well in advance to save our astronauts that they don't get fried same thing on the long trip to mars we've got to be able to understand what's coming and and on earth climate science we need to better understand the effects of the sun with regard to delicate measurements of our climate in order to be better stewards of our planet thank you mr administrator thanks madam chair i yield back thank you very much mr sessions chairwoman thank you very much uh administrator thank you for taking time to be with this important committee i want to thank the leadership of this committee not only gentlewoman from from dallas but also mr lucas for their leadership sir there is a big discussion about jobs a big discussion about need of jobs is there pending uh the uh agree or the final decision by gao is there a document or something that's going to be released from you that will lay out perhaps i don't know about a visionary statement but the thinking of nasa about moving forward yes sir i don't know that i can pinpoint it to how many jobs it's going to be we can look into the past of nasa we can tell you how much money has rippled through the economy as a result of the space program how much money on a specific part of the space program has rippled through the money and give you an estimate in the past of the jobs that were created we clearly know that that's the case uh particularly when you're doing cutting-edge technology and you're developing new things and suddenly you got a whole new line of employment uh and that's going to occur as we develop the technology to go to the moon and mars yes sir let me move away from perhaps the word jobs and go to the to the word document is there a document that you're waiting to produce to release that in essence i i think would provide some specificity towards nasa's thinking about what they're talking about of not just competition but actually what would be on the moon how they might move forward is there a document which you're preparing that would be available soon after the gao decision we'll prepare that document once we know what the path is forward as a result of the gao decision okay and that's where it then comes to the word jobs you and i both know uh we have blue origin we have boeing we have lockheed martin we have back in the district that i represent in central texas mcgregor texas spacex there are a lot of people in this area i i would say to you that uh i find intriguing and really essential the thinking of this administration through your servicer about what that future looks like because i think that that the development of of jobs has a lot to do with the ability that a company has to know not just of the funding but of the strength of these missions to to have long-term employment to have long-term decisions about what kind of people they have employed i spent a few years at a old organization that changed names a number of times but essentially it was bell labs and the bell labs needed to know about their where they were headed to to where they could make longer term decisions and i would say to you that i i think that your mark on that vision statement about what would be competition what would be uh where we're going to land what whether we're going to put a space station up whether we're going to put something on the surface and and playing that out i think you've indicated you've got a pretty good handle on that nasa has an idea about where they want to go and the specificity of that when when available will enable these companies like spacex and others to then make a determination about where they're going to head not just with jobs but how they're going to recruit how they're going to retain and as you know there's a very aggressive schedule of flights and and and moving forward and i think that is part of the vision statement it's a it's a joint uh exercise that you're doing public-private partnership so to speak uh but with the vision of nasa so i i really want to thank you i i remember back to dan golden very well and mary ellen weber who was one of his favorite astronauts uh jim bridenstine i think did a great job as dan golden did and i think you stand uh at that doorway of being able to give a great vision and statement but i would say back to you these companies that uh have these uh leading edge scientists need that viewpoint and so do you last question what what do you think about time frames of that release shortly after the gao decision and congressman further i would say that the past is prologue look what happened to the jobs in this country in the field of stem as a result of the apollo program where a major goal was set and the nation decided collectively the whole of government the the whole of american free enterprise that we were going to accomplish that goal and look at the jobs that came out of that that then revolutionized things look at the micro uh technology that came when you had to develop small in size low in weight and highly reliable instruments for the apollo program and look what that did everything from watches to computers uh and we're seeing that today and you'll see more of that as we get on down the road on going back to the moon and on to mars as well as all these other things in science that we've been talking about the administrator thank you everyone else has had a chance to put in a plug i too would like to have you come to waco texas and visit mcgregor texas where spacex is uh i think you'll you'll be once again uh reinvigorated by the free enterprise system of bright people and i want to thank you for your service not you not just the united states house and the senate but also your service now and good luck and godspeed i think we will salute to a great plan and thank you i yield back my time madam chairman thank you very much his invitation to waco will only follow one to dallas miss moore mr foster thank you madam chair um well first thank you ranking member lucas administrator nelson for joining us here today um i believe the documents that my republican colleague mr sessions was requesting are known as the technical design report and a resource loaded schedule and budget will which will be required for the artemis mission the gateway project and the mission to mars when can we in congress expect a preliminary version of these documents after the gao report so within the year by the end of the year yes sir okay thank you um you know you also mentioned in your remarks the importance of developing new technology uh as part of the the realistic uh ways of getting to mars um you know also you mentioned the the very difficult problem of radiation shielding for which you know it's for both the mission to mars and the gateway project which i believe there aren't really satisfactory solutions yet part of which is to make very high performance propulsion systems so you can get to mars and back quickly now the national it's a recently released report um i think in february of this year entitled space nuclear propulsion for human mars exploration which looks at a lot of the technical details for really you know getting a higher performance mission to mars propulsion system for the mission to mars and it recommended that if you're in order to support human missions to mars as soon as while they were planning on the late 2030s that nasa needed to invest money now in a very aggressive technology development program for the propulsion that addresses the fundamental challenges both for thermal nuclear and electric nuclear propulsion congress has maintained an interest in space nuclear power and propulsion through both the authorization and appropriation language including 110 million dollars in the fy 2021 appropriation could you comment on why nasa's fy 2022 budget does not propose any funding for either nuclear electric propulsion or nuclear thermal propulsion technology development and demonstration activities congressman it's going to have to in the near future because the alternative is to go to mars with conventional technology which is going to take us eight to ten months to get there and then you're going to have to be on the surface for two years before you would bring the crew back for another eight to ten months and that's because of the alignment of the planets so that you could get back in that shorter period of time so is it realistic that you could send a crew all the way to mars and sustain them on that distance of millions and millions of miles i think my personal opinion is now i am not a scientist so we're going to have to listen to the propulsion folks but uh my country boy understanding of this is that we are going to have to speed up one way or another try at least to get it down to a year on the surface uh and you can do that with one of those nuclear i think it's nuclear thermal yeah nuclear thermal that that my physicist understanding is that it's nuclear thermal and um that then that the new that the solar uh options will be mainly useful for getting cargo there um with low mass into low earth orbit um but but i'm really um you know i would have expected a more aggressive budget proposal if that's going to be a serious option uh you know one of the very positive things that's happened um is that there seems to be a convergence on the use of low enriched uranium for these missions because there had been previous discussion both for surface power reactors and propulsion reactors on using high enriched uranium this is uh to my mind a very dangerous future where where multiple countries will have large amounts of weapons usable uranium as part of their propulsion reactors because of the ease of which they could be converted to nuclear weapons and the world and space will be much safer if we standardize on that it's been a it's been a real step forward i think for the world that we're focusing on the low enriched uranium designs for for both the surface and the propulsion reactors but i urge you to really um you know give that program a healthy kick because it's going to be essential to get the performance we need for a mars mission on the schedule we hope to see it happen congressman you obviously are skilled in this very technical area and i might say i think you're correct that we're not going to be handling a lot of highly enriched uranium because it's very important in another part of our government that that doesn't get out of our control and into somebody's hands who can use it to build a bomb uh absolutely and the advanced nuclear reactor concepts for that are look being looked at for commercialization are also moving towards high enriched low enriched high assay material which is much safer and so i think the convergence of nasa and the commercial reactor world is a very possible positive trend that we should encourage nuclear uh electric uh congressman uh offers new possibilities we're just not there yet you could develop a rocket like uh one that's being experimented on vasimir it'd get us there in 39 days it'd go accelerate halfway and de-accelerate the remaining half once you're there in 39 days the planets don't get out of alignment and you can stay a week or two a month and you can sprint back 39 days but the technologies are not there these are the things that we're going to have to develop before we end up with the technology we're going with in the 2030s to mars with humans thank you i'm over time and uh yield back thank you very much mr garcia thank you madam chair and uh ranking member lucas for for both of uh your leadership uh and partnership on this administrator it's good to see you again sir thank you uh when we last spoke uh well first of all let me commend the achievements from last year i mean uh to be able to land on uh send the mars uh missions up launch americans from american soil and american made hardware and to have spacex recover safely 26 flights in one year which is about three times what the space shuttle was able to do in one year during its best years is a massive achievement in any year but especially during the pandemic i think we have proven out the the the government and commercial partnership uh aspects and the model works i think we need to conf figure out how to continue to accelerate that incentivize industry keep industry uh interested in these programs and and not uh grind them to a halt on contracting issues uh to that point uh you know i i hope that is something that nasa is looking at is how do we get folks on contract quicker how do we maintain a fixed price incentive fee contracting rather than cost plus incentive fee type contracts there's a lot of weight a lot of ways to skin a cat but as you know there's a lot of ways to kill programs and and these are these are the the barriers to entry that we sometimes see on the on the defense side uh i want to just put a bow real quick on the the hls conversation uh there's been a lot of discussion the problem that we have with the august 4th decision is that between now and then we're actually going through markups within the appropriations committee that i sit on as well so i just want to to put a bow on the acquisition strategy you mentioned in the uh the approps conversations a couple weeks ago uh that that this first hls award was effectively a one-off demonstrator for the first mission you use the word demonstrator again today uh the inference of that would be that there are follow-on competitions and that represents effectively your acquisition strategy but that's not reflected either in the fy 22 budget request nor the five-year plan and so just to make sure we're on the same page uh because there really is only two scenarios coming out of august 4th either the the protest is upheld or it's not if it's upheld uh we still have a massive funding gap to the tune of 5. 4 billion that your plan is to use the jobs act to get healthy enough either directly or indirectly through other programs to pay for the follow-on hls programs well that's up to you that's up to you if you decide to appropriate the money in order to have these follow-on competitions and many landings one a year over over a decade and by the way they will be fixed price good fixed price contracts good i just want to make sure that that ask is on the table and that then that not only the authorizers but the appropriators are aware that that is uh the plan to get whole on this overarching acquisition strategy and if that's the case that we need to codify that as we move through the next couple weeks before august 4.

i resonate with the competition is good we need to keep keep pushing in that direction and i think nasa is doing a good job of that moral horses in the race is always good i want to dive down into a couple specific programs as well if you don't mind administrator the mars sample recovery you mentioned early on that that was still something we were chasing we have the rover now on the planet uh we have it collecting samples here but we don't have necessarily the program of record or the funding to bring back the samples uh that that could be a large bill um where is that captured in the in the strategic plan or in the budget request it's being designed right now okay and as soon as we have i've seen one concept it's a very complicated concept they want to make sure that the material is uh not contaminated uh once it comes back all of this is done in a very elaborate uh instrument that they land on mars taking the sample that will be collected by this rover perseverance transferring it to the other preparing it and then putting it in effect in a capsule that then launches from the surface of mars and comes back and then comes back through with a heat shield through the entry of the atmosphere okay so we're still characterizing the the price footprint of that of of that design it's going through design reviews okay yes sir last in the remaining 10 seconds we have a program in my district called sophia this is a 747 based infrared uh instrument just upgraded with a new instrumentation system recently partnership with germany lots of money being spent on that that's set to be terminated within this budget request i would request that you look at that at least wait for the senior review and fy22 before we make any decisions uh and and happy to support you in those conversations and host you in our district for that as well thank you mr administrator thank you congressman thank you very much miss moore you're motive thank you so very very much madam chair uh and thank you mr administrator uh for your your patience uh during this very long hearing um mr bowman raised a point and you didn't get a chance really to respond you're putting 20 million extra dollars into stem education and he proposed that it ought to start like in k-6 and i'm thinking maybe that's too old uh and i just want to know specifically what you're doing to uh to in the k-12 space um in particular regarding student education i don't think if you give somebody their first slide rule when you're a freshman in college that you're going to do very much in terms of of that space i understand your concern congresswoman i'm going to try to affect that because education doesn't start once you enter the university started a lot earlier and i think you will see that in addition to the stem grants which go to universities i think you will see us try to expand the efforts of educating kids we can only do with stem grants what the law allows however we have other ways of getting this word into uh even elementary and secondary schools that that's where they need to be mr administrator um you have you've spent a lot of time talking about equity and gender equity and what we've noticed on this committee is that not only were women in low-level jobs like restaurants suffering through this pandemic with the loss of child but we noticed that women published less papers than before the pandemic and i just want to know if there can you tell us what the pandemic has done to nasa uh personnel well fortunately uh our personnel were the first to be able of any government agency to adapt quickly by remotely being able to work okay we are governed on a return to the offices by the decision of the white house and we will be governed accordingly but i can tell you uh i'm tired of roaming around in an empty headquarters building basically by myself now joined with pam and so i'm looking forward for everybody getting back absolutely mr administrator um i just want to point out that i'm from wisconsin so this a long way from florida i know how much you admire florida um but a great example uh of the partnership of nasa is with the partnership that they have the university of wisconsin and boeing partnered under the university leadership initiative and students got to study robotics advanced aviation manufacturing which i know you're interested in um and there's a lot of scientific inquiries regarding the great link system on the climate of the eastern united states and even the science behind the formation of tornadoes um do you anticipate having a bigger footprint in places like wisconsin uh during your tenure yes ma'am and i've been to wisconsin uh i went there with tammy baldwin uh not for nasa uh but for the u. s coast guard you've got a station there just south of milwaukee and uh i if you'll invite me i'll i'll be happy to come back consider yourself invited uh and because uh we uh there are there's a great nexus between what we're doing um and and and and nassau so we'd be happy uh to have you so consider yourself invited we'll follow up and madam chair i would yield back the remainder of my time thank you very much mr feinster thank you chairman johnson and ranking member lucas administrator uh nelson i appreciate you taking the time today to speak to our committee on nasa and the administration's fiscal year 2022 budget proposal as you know china is a significant competitor in space exploration and efforts to militarize space last week i introduced an amendment to the nsf for the future act along with congressman waltz it was added with bipartisan committee support during the markup the amendment related to prohibiting participation in malign foreign talent recruitment programs such as china's thousand talents program the question is does nasa have an active program in place to assess employees from foreign influence or prohibit their participation in malign foreign talent recruitment programs if we don't we will yeah that's good it's so important i think it's critical to our country that that we focus on those around the communist world that have concerns about our country another question i have moving on to the issue of agriculture the future of sustainable aviation fuel may provide a new market for biofuels produced in iowa looking at your budget how does biofuels play out in sustainable sustainable aviation fuel and related research and development in your budget for fy22 2022 the first day in nasa is aeronautics and we're looking at all kinds of fuels basically nasa aviation has got to do our part in lessening the pollution of putting co2 and methane up into the upper atmosphere so we are getting ready to fly a demonstrator on an all-electric aircraft coming up this year and that's just one trying to look at alternative fuels now how the biofuels work into this i can't tell you off the top of my head i know before we've seen biofuels into the american automobile industry because most of us are at least getting uh 10 ethanol when we pump at the gas pump i know the air force in the past it had a program that was going to be uh directed at mostly biofuels when you launch rockets you've generally got to have something that's really got a kick and usually that's something like kerosene or hydrogen or methane uh so but getting back to aeronautics we are doing that and doing it aggressively well it's great to hear uh relating to agriculture nasa's applied sciences sciences and nasa's harvest program worked to advance the use of satellite observations to benefit agriculture and food security can you talk about nasa's budgeting to develop applications to assist precision precision agriculture and provide data in support of agriculture and land use issues such as drought forecasting or flood plain mapping control so i'm an old country boy so as a matter of fact i can't even remember my grandfather plowing a mule but think about today the farmer gets in an air-conditioned tractor and he's got a gps system and it's telling him exactly how to furrow that road now what about all the scientific instruments that we have now that can examine the crops from space and see what's diseased or what about the ones that are going to be able to predict drought in the future to help the farmer or what about the desert community that suddenly under the soil of the desert we can locate deposits of water all of those things are bound to be helping agriculture and and country folks and uh i think it's exciting yeah i do too and administrator nelson i would greatly appreciate listening to you today it's an honor and privilege for a farm kid in iowa to listen to you and with that i yield back thank you thank you very much mr letourneau thank you chairwoman johnson and ranking member lucas administrator nelson it's a pleasure uh to uh get to interact with you today of your many accomplishments my favorite is that you're a fellow former state treasurer uh so it's um it's great to see here today um now that the commercial crew program is fully underway nasa will have the ability to add additional crew members to the iss how will nasa and international partners crew time be impacted by the private astronaut mission well uh i think that's a concern and i think we constantly have to monitor that and what i have suggested uh as a newbie but one who is responsible uh is that uh they have the same training that our professional astronauts have uh they go through the same medical checks the same kind of psychological checks and that you have an experienced astronaut with them thus you see that the company that's going to do the first private astronauts to the space station uh has michael lopez alegria one of our very experienced astronauts that is conducting the training they're even going out in the desert for like a week in order to create the the bonding of a crew and uh uh they have also uh named peggy whitson who has spent more time in space than anybody else at some 800 plus days uh is going to be the astronaut that will accompany the second group that's much further on out so you raise a very valid concern and i've been trying to address that i appreciate that uh nasa continues to propose transferring specific space communication efforts over to the private sector what progress has nasa made on this front on which front on on transferring specific space communication efforts over to the private sector i'm curious about the progress you made and also the the response that you've received from the private sector well everything that really nasa does is the private sector uh the the private sector that you're referring to is the commercial part of space flight where we give a a request for proposal and companies come back and bid as we have done so successfully on commercial crew to the space station as well as commercial cargo those are fixed price contracts but when it's involving humans including the docking of cargo missions to the space station nasa is going to be all over to make sure that it's meeting the safety standards that we have to have on anything having to be with humans in space uh does that answer your question it does i appreciate it and i appreciate your time and i yield back madam chairwoman thank you very much miss miss ross thank you madam chairman i hope you can hear me um this is a wonderful hearing chairwoman johnson and thank you to administrator nelson for joining us today i met you a couple times before including in my home state of north carolina and as you know north carolina has contributed to nasa for decades christine darden one of nasa's hidden figures broke barriers in the stem industry and in gender and racial equality and she's from north carolina she was the first african-american woman to be promoted into the senior executive service at nasa's langley research center we also have christina koch koch a three-time graduate of nc state in my district who served as a flight engineer on the international space station station for three expeditions and set a record for the longest single space flight by a woman with a total of 328 days in space and she was a participant in in the all-woman spacewalk and the 62 astronauts including those on the apollo 11 mission train the university of north carolina's moorhead planetarium i believe that inspiring the next generation to reach for the stars well before they earn advanced degrees and qualified to join nasa is a crucial crucial mission both for congress and for your agency and in north carolina and research triangle park in particular were a major stem education hub and we've grown our stem education at a higher rate than the national average i'm thrilled to see that for the first time in many years nasa's budget request includes a funded funding for its office of stem engagement and so i'd like to know how the stem engagement activities are building stronger ties with nasa's mission including its flight programs and uh mike smith who gave his life for the country in the terrible tragedy of challenger was from north carolina as well and um thank you for the contributions from your state stem is uh we've had some discussion here already uh extensively about the importance of stem you can't be a society that wants to do all of these gee whiz technological achievements that are giant leaps if you don't have the educated populace and what better to stimulate the interest of kids in science and technology and engineering and mathematics than the space program uh and so we're going to really try to rev up stem education it got a big boost in the president's budget and we're going to try to manage it in a way that it really does have an effect stem grants are not the province just of nasa they're every agency of government and you will have an opportunity as you go through these uh authorization bills and appropriations bills coming on uh to affect stem throughout the whole of government but we're going to try to do our part well thank you so so much one of the other things that we do well in the research triangle is have a very innovative clean tech um cluster and advancing clean energy and can you elaborate on how your agencies work on research and work on climate change and innovation can uh contribute to our domestic clean energy sector including manufacturing and supply chains yes ma'am and uh we've had uh a considerable discussion on that issue as well uh climate science in nasa is getting a major emphasis not only with the very uh delicate instruments that are on orbit right now measuring all kinds of things and you have seen the result for example in the national weather service well nasa is the one that designs those instruments there's satellites those spacecraft builds them and launches them and noah then operates them but we've got a future that is very exciting over the next decade we are going to put up five great observatories and they are going to give us a measurements of what's happening on land on water on ice in the atmosphere in a way that we've never had and then collate all that into a three-dimensional understanding of the subtle changes that are occurring and what we need to do about that as well as advise us on a daily basis basis of what we ought to be looking out for all of that is around the corner that's a two and a half billion dollar project over 10 years five missions the first of which will be january of next year yes ma'am well thank you very much mr administrator thank you madam chair and i yield back thank you very much mr jimenez thank you madam madam chair and uh and our ranking member lucas um senator um administrator good to see you again mr mayor good to see you thank you um uh senator administrator do you think that china is in a race to the moon with us yes sir congressman why because of what they've already done and what they've announced they're going to do and by the way if you look back on the history of the chinese program they announce what they're going to do and then they do it and so uh we've already seen they've been on the moon successfully uh we clearly saw what they've done as only the second nation to ever be able to land a rover on mars we did so back in the 1970s and have had several since but they're the second nation to be able to pull this off and it's no minor feat they are preparing a sample return mission from mars so this is demonstrating extreme capability uh they've announced that they're going to send about three missions to the south pole of mars we're sending three commercial probes overseen by nasa all looking at water ice because from that you can get fuel and oxygen right so i i hate to interrupt you i only have about three minutes i have a couple other questions for you um do we know that there's water ice on the south pole yes sir do we know how much there is on the south pole that's why we're going okay and so that if you have if you have water ice in the south pole then you can create fuel which then you can take off from the the moon a lot more efficiently than taking off from the earth and that's why you want to get the want to get there what happens if the united states and china arrive or somebody's there at the south pole already and somebody else comes there who owns who gets that water ice well i think you raise a good question and that's why we have something known as the artemis courts of which we are getting other nations to sign it uh brazil being the the most recent and what the artemis courts say is that our exploration of the moon is going to be transparent it's going to be peaceful nations are going to cooperate together and there's nobody going to be exclusive has china signed that no neither has russia that's interesting so it's a data point look i i i i raised those questions i knew the answers but um we are in a race with the chinese to get to the moon and it's a matter of national uh security that we win that race it's also a matter of national pride that we win that race just like it was back in the in the 60s when we beat the russians to the moon because it shows it it's a demonstration to the world of who is the preeminent power in the world and it's a it's a very uh you know people don't understand that but that's exactly what's going on and so you know you'll find in me somebody who will will fund or try to fund nasa to the greatest extent possible to make sure that we're the first ones back on the moon related to that the the lander that we just uh that we just awarded the contract to when do you expect delivery of the first lander well that depends on what gao says on august 4th well if they say that there's going to be competition then there's a 10 billion dollar shortfall in your budget right and that's up to you then we'll uh we'll see uh and i've suggested here before you arrived that there are more ways to skin a cat than one and uh you're going to have a jobs bill in front of you that's got an r d component and that would be a good place well you know i agree with you that with all the trillions that are being bannered about that we should spend some of that on uh on nasa and ensuring that that the united states uh remains and will always remain the preeminent uh force in space um look uh you go back in history it was the countries that were exploring there were always the dominant countries um and so we need to keep on exploring and we need to be the first and we need to be the first out there and so um you know i know my time is up and i i yield back but again uh thank you for being here and again pleasure seeing you again sir america never wants to give up its dna as explorers adventurers because always we've had a frontier and we've been successful in capturing that frontier now our frontier is up thank you very much mr keeley thank you madam chair and good morning uh or afternoon i guess now uh administrator nelson thank you for being here and and uh let me just say this thank you for uh the various forms that your service to this country have taken uh it's very much appreciated and i'm thrilled that you're in the position you're in right now i'd like to to talk to you a bit about nasa's earth sciences division specifically the earth applied sciences develop program i understand the program has worked with the great lakes and st lawrence cities initiative for a number of years on projects designed to protect the great lakes i come from michigan uh the great lakes are our lifeblood it literally outlines our boundaries it defines who we are as a state uh the lakes are also critical to our livelihood according to the great lakes seaway partnership shipping on the great lakes and st lawrence seaway supported 35 billion dollars in economic activity in 2017. so in my time in congress i've been working on this i've introduced and passed legislation that prioritizes and updates federal mapping of the great lakes we talked you know you were just mentioning how uh we have such a an explorer uh character in our in our dna uh we we continue to to need to uh do more research and exploration even here at home and great lakes is one area where we can do that i have uh asked in passed legislation to prioritize the mapping of the great lakes um introduced resolutions to oppose um building nuclear waste repositories in the great lakes basin introduced legislation to prevent asian carp from reaching the lakes continued robust funding for the great lakes restoration initiative as you can see this has been a priority but the pressure on the great lakes as a result of climate change only raises the importance of research and work in preserving what is really an international treasure so i wonder if you might comment or discuss how the fy 22 budget would continue uh the work uh that your agency is involved in preserving uh the great lakes congressman i had the privilege of serving with your dad and it was a great privilege uh to know him as a colleague when you have these earth observation satellites or spacecraft they give us all kinds of measurements to address a number of the things that we also address terrestrially here for example the invasive species in the great lakes that is just a terrible um boon to the existence of uh marine uh industry in the great lakes that that uh that kind of muscle that clogs up all the drains that comes in in the ballast water you know that's that's one thing but what about the algal blooms or other invasive species or storm water runoff or uh the the the coastal flood risk the wetlands all of those things we can help the dangerous uh the dangers that are facing your constituents by the observations we are making from space and uh then that goes into what i had explained before about these five great observatories that are going to just refine that data and give it so much more comprehensive so i'm with you congressman i very much appreciate that i mean the agency obviously has a lot on its plate and i will say that i do support your uh your goal of us continuing to lead in this space literally and figuratively uh but to not forget that the agency does have a robust agenda as it relates to uh life right here on this planet and i do appreciate your effort and particularly your continued support for uh research related to the great lakes it's a critical asset it's one that i'm happy to hear that you also appreciate and support so with that thank you again for your service to our country madam chair i yield back thank you very much miss kim thank you chairwoman and ranking member thank you for holding this hearing and administrator nelson welcome thank you so much for being with us to discuss the budget requests for nasa you know back in february i had the opportunity to go to jpl to witness the launching and the landing of perseverance rover and that was quite an experience and i was honored to be one of the few members that were able to do that did you meet mimi she is the lady that handled the little helicopter i don't think i personally had the opportunity to meet her but you know that was like oh my goodness it was after 292 million mire and seven month preparation right so it was really truly an amazing experience during that uh visit what i did was as soon as i knew i was invited i reached out to the school districts in my district and roland unified school district invited the eighth graders to join me virtually so i was able to take my laptop and turn it around and show the um the scale model of the rover and that was quite an experience for the students and i think that's exactly what we need to do to encourage our young students to take an interest in stem related education and provide the opportunities for them to be encouraged to perhaps dream about being the next engineers next scientist and perhaps one of these days they may be the ones taking on that human lender and go back and retrieve the samples that our astronauts are currently working on the mar to bring back and so i'm really excited about that opportunity and in my view and i know you share this we need to keep our students engaged from an early age and some of my colleagues on both sides before me talked about the importance of providing the opportunity educational opportunities from early on not when they are ready to go to college from pre-k to eighth grade which is why i'm so excited and i want to give a plug in for my legislation that i introduced innovations in informer stem learning act and this will create a grant opportunity and also allow non-profit organizations to give you know stem related programs before after and even out of school uh programs so i you know it's a good plug-in for my colleagues if they're not aware of it to please sign on and become a co-sponsor of that bill so can you please elaborate on how the additional four million dollars the budget provides for the next generation stem project will be utilized and obviously we can talk about the importance of nasa supporting the type of uh programming that my legislation will call for for our pipeline of scientists engineers and astronauts and so forth first of all thank you congresswoman you have sat here the entire time so thank you very much thank you for your interest uh there's a four million dollar increase that you talked about and it is for the emphasis on learning opportunities in k through 12. awesome i think we agree that we need to ensure that today's students have the skills needed to join the stem workforce because this is the pathway for job creation which affects our american economy and we are gonna be ready to boost that nation's uh challenges to uh you know send uh i mean to boost that nation's competitiveness abroad so thank you so much for that and i know i've heard from many small contractors located in my district which is california's 39th congressional district about the importance of space exploration for the region that i represent so i look forward to working with you with the committee uh to ensure that our uh space programs are appropriately offended with that obviously we understand so it's not a question i look forward to working with you and i will i will yield back the balance of my time thank you very much mr sherman thank you um my first question i'm sure has not arisen in that because it relates to my district uh the zana susanna field lab was used during the cold war in the early parts of the cold war um various contaminants chiefly nuclear remain the facility uh the acreage is immediately adjacent to the city limits of los angeles surrounded by populated suburbs some 451 acres of this is a responsibility of nasa uh the joining property is uh subject to responsibility of the department of energy and of the boeing corporation um so the contamination affects uh hundreds of thousands of people uh there are seven hundred thousand people who've signed a signature demanding a full cleanup of the site uh the prior secretary of the of energy governor perry uh at my request made at a science committee hearing visited the site and yet we still don't have any significant cleanup a few old structures were removed i'd like to bring to your attention a documentary and arrange to get it to you called dark of the valley about how hundreds of thousands of people are affected by this contamination i want to know whether i can count on nasa to work to comply with the consent decree and actually start cleaning up the facility uh relatively soon congressman we take the environment very seriously uh as to making a commitment to you i've got to know the details and i just simply don't have those but i can say this you can tell a lot about a fella where he's going by where he's been and look at my environmental record over a lifetime of public service and i think that'll give you some degree of comfort we will get you fully briefed and then we will get you a copy of this documentary which should be available soon um um you've noted that the s-l-s could be used for multiple missions besides sending humans to deep space can you discuss your plan to keep uh a regular cadence uh for the sls mission and you have uh spoke to my colleagues on the national security of space using sls using the delta iv um heavy um which is being retired can you comment on that well uh basically on the delta iv uh you're having the atlas 5 and the delta iv which have been the mainstay workhorses of getting a lot of commercial but especially national defense payloads over time in to orbit into protection of our country and those are being replaced as we develop new rockets and uh there is a specific timetable i don't have that on the top of my head with regard to the regular cadence of landing on the moon with artemis that is what i hope is going to occur if we can get a robust competition and have a decision on what the lander should be and to have those landings once a year so thus the cadence that you talk about have them once a year over about a dozen year period all of which is for the purpose of getting ready to go to mars learning what we can the preparation the systems the new technology in dealing in an environment on a surface of a celestial body that is one-sixth the gravity and we're getting ready to go to a celestial body that's one third the gravity of earth thank you i hope the chairwoman will allow me to sneak in one more question can you share your perspective on how the gateway is a critical element of our effort to further explore not only the moon but ultimately expand our space exploration of mars i won't go into the detail that i did before to spare the committee but the gateway in essence is a small space station in lunar orbit that will do many things it'll be a weigh station for us to go down and back from the lunar surface it will be a research station it's international we've already got a number of partners and it will be the place that is likely to be the embarkation point where we will assemble a spacecraft technology to be developed that will go to mars thank you yes sir thank you very much mr webster thank you chair senator good to see you i think you all have more florida members on this committee than any other state maybe outpaced by california we've got a big interest so do you um i i've been listening i i heard and it kind of expanded as we went along all of the amount of information that you're gathering just from being in space collecting data and that certainly is useful data i was wondering how does nasa partner with other other government agencies even local and state agencies to utilize that from hurricanes in our area but also there's wildfires floods and all kinds of other natural disasters is there a way or just tell me what's going on right now with that the extensive sharing of data among u. s government agencies with nasa is just unbelievably i i didn't realize until i got into this position how extensive it is now i'll give you a good example we in florida of course are concerned about the direction and the ferocity of an inbound hurricane all right you've got all these assets up there that are measuring all kinds of different items that affect the intensity and the direction of that hurricane these are all in large part assets that are in space we have the the buoys on the ocean that help us and and we have airplanes that fly through and above the hurricane but we've also got these assets in space that are giving us all kinds of new measurements and that's just one example on the sharing of data so yeah is there is we have i always think about in florida we have speaking of hurricanes we have these uh um emergency operation centers all over and uh there's police and fire and everybody has a lot of people have a seat at the table if you're i'm sure you've been to one before and they're all moving and working in pieces as some let's say hurricane or some other disaster is coming um are those pieces of information shared there or can they be or should they be the data yeah the data that they have so now this it's in action it's happening it's a live storm and uh these people are reacting locally to there's going to be a local flood or there's going to be a local windstorm problem of some kind is is that information shared even with those local eocs yes sir and let me give you another example some of the spacecraft that we have for example will measure the amount of moisture content in the atmosphere and this is going to be even more evident in these great observatories that we're going to put up because measuring what's happening in the atmosphere now moisture content of the atmosphere is a major component when we're trying to figure out what that hurricane is going to do in the future and the direction and the intensity and the and the temperature of that atmosphere and the temperature of the surface of the ocean and even the temperature underneath the surface of the ocean and a lot of that is coming from the very instruments that nasa has designed built and launched and then turned over to noaa to operate so yeah i can see that even the the moisture content when it comes to flooding and other things uh because that's also a problem an aftermath a lot of times the wind's already gone the kind of the news story is already gone and then our rivers feel filled up and later on even sometimes a week two weeks three weeks later is the surge of what happens uh that's probably pretty awesome thing yes well i've learned something today that's a lot more information than i even knew about thank you for coming congratulations on your new position i know you do a fantastic job we really appreciate you coming today thank you again thank you thank you very much miss spice administrator nelson i have good news for you i think i may be the last questioner of the week you have been ma'am very very patient well thank you for joining us today and thank you to the chair and ranking member for allowing us the opportunity to speak with you about the budget first i hail from the great state of oklahoma and there are some great nasa ties including uh your predator or your your predecessor who was from oklahoma as well as general thomas stafford who has a museum in ranking member lucas's district who i saw yesterday uh tom stafford a personal friend who lives in satellite beach congressman and i will see jim breidenstein for supper tonight i'll tell him i said hello yes ma'am first you mentioned earlier in the hearing that you were concerned about supply chain and i am honored to be a member of the supply chain task force which is looking at the critical infrastructure that has been impacted specifically over the last 18 months because of covet 19 but also as it relates to the department of defense and what we can do as a country to ensure that we don't have any supply chain disruptions moving forward and you specifically mentioned rare earth minerals and those come from foreign entities and i think that we have to be mindful as we look to the future to figure out how do we prohibit the possibility of not having access to those which is incredibly important to many of the things that we're doing at nasa uh as well as within the department of defense that is something that i know the administration is also focused on given their 100-day supply chain task force memo that was put out a couple weeks ago in addition congressman waltz made the comment that he was concerned about china and as a member of the house armed services committee i echo those concerns as well i think hearing and seeing some of the things that we have have seen over the last couple of months particularly with the landing of a rover on mars it's very clear that china is looking to outpace the united states and it's imperative that we do everything that we can to invest in research and development and exploration to ensure that that doesn't happen in your in your budget you ask for 101 million for commercial low earth orbit development and i very much appreciate the collaboration with the private sector and nasa to do that my concern is how do we prevent another situation like we have seen with hls because currently we are on hold with that particular program until the decision in august comes and we're on a time frame here and so my my fear is that we're doing a great job of investing in in leo partnering with the private sector but we cannot have delays it is not in our best interest as a country how do you help how do you prevent that from happening in the future remember there were delays on the commercial crew program that was contested as well as it turns out it's been a very uh successful program it's a fixed price contract and the second commercial provider for commercial crew is just getting ready to launch their vehicle at the end of next month and then a crew on that vehicle at the end of the year so the law provides that someone can contest an award and uh we're not going to be able to uh avoid that and we have indeed uh had to go into neutral for the past hundred days because of the bid protest but this is our system this is the rule of law and uh once we get a result uh we will move out as quickly as we can and thank you for that answer i appreciate the fact that we do live under the rule of law in this country the concern i have is that um our adversaries don't pay attention to the laws of this country and they're willing to sacrifice to be able to move forward and advance at a very quick pace so i think we as a country need to be mindful of how we navigate these waters in signing these contracts and putting these private sector companies creating those partnerships with nasa's so that we're not behind the eight ball at the end of the day that's the most important thing is to ensure the competitiveness of the united states well remember you're a big part of this and all you have to do is look back at apollo and we were way behind and the american people and the congress supported a young president's vision of going to the moon and back successfully within the decade and it happened and it was because everybody in the whole of government came together supported by the american people so as we are looking into this adventure that we are all joining in you are very much a part of that thank you mr administrator madame cherry yield back thank you very much and thank you administrator nelson for being with us and spending this time answering all of the questions the record will remain open for two weeks for additional statements from members and for any additional questions the committee may have or ask the witness the witness is now excused and the hearing is adjourned you

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