Carmen Baron

As a trained structural and architectural designer, Carmen Baron sees the lines, colors, and proportions needed to create intricately designed custom-made costumes for young Baile Folklórico dancers throughout the state of Arizona.

Carmen Baron was born in 1960 in the town of Atil, Sonora, Mexico, and raised nearby in Altar. Her house was made in a traditional rural Mexican style of adobe, the floor was dirt, there was no electricity, and water was drawn from a well. Sewing was a necessity, which Baron learned on her grandmother's pedal machine. Her mother taught her the basics for sewing as well as how to make dresses without patterns which later became a creative expression.

When she was 13, Baron’s father, a native of Los Angeles, moved the family back to the U.S. and Baron went on to study Architecture at the University of Arizona. While working professionally as a structural and architectural designer, Baron also studied Mexican folk dance (Baile Folklórico). She danced for seven years with Instituto de Folklore Mexicano in Tucson, while also volunteering as a seamstress for the group. Following the death of her teacher and the end of Instituto de Folklore Mexicano, Baron formed her own dance group, Danzacultura Mexicana, to pass on her knowledge of the traditional dances to new generations. Since the company’s founding in 1997, Baron has taught Mexican folk dance and made nearly all the costumes for Danzacultura students. The students have been featured at festivals in and around Tucson, including De Anza Days and Presidio San Agustin.

Folklórico costumes represent social dances and songs from predominately nine different geographic regions of Mexico. They consist of embroidered jackets, circular skirts with multi-colored hand-sewn ribbon trim, and bold colors, each animating which Mexican region or dance is being performed. To make them by hand, with original patterns, requires skill and knowledge of the distinctive cultural expressions represented. Baron is committed to maintaining the art of hand-made folklórico costumes by documenting traditional methods and teaching younger generations, instilling a sense of discipline, confidence, and pride in their cultural heritage. Both in-person and virtually, she mentors students in the steps for making the Mexican folk costumes, from drawing patterns to cutting and stitching the garments. For each costume, she documents how to make the patterns, as well as how much and what type of fabric is needed.

Her costumes have been exhibited at the Presidio San Agustin Tortilla Festival in Tucson, the La Canoa Ranch in Green Valley, Arizona, and the Tucson Meet Yourself festival. In 2016, Baron received a Southwest Folklife Alliance Master-Apprentice Award to support her in sharing her knowledge of traditional folklórico costumes and sewing with her first apprentice. In 2017, the City of Tucson’s Parks & Recreation Department recognized Baron with the Commissioners Award for her thousands of volunteer hours at its El Rio Neighborhood Center.

Work Sample

Podcasts

Carmen Baron

Mexican folk costume maker and dancer Carmen Baron talks with host John Floridis about how sewing and dance became intertwined in her life.

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Transcript

John Floridis: Welcome.

This podcast is part of a series highlighting the 2025 National Endowment for the Arts Heritage
Fellows, recipients of the nation's highest honor in folk and traditional arts.

I’m John Floridis.

For this podcast, we're going to visit with Mexican folk costume maker and dancer Carmen Barron.
Carmen was born in the town of Atil Sanora, Mexico, and raised in nearby Altar. She grew up in a
house made of adobe, a traditional rural Mexican style with a dirt floor. There was no electricity
and water was drawn from a well. She learned to sew at a very young age, using her grandmother's
pedal sewing machine.

Sewing was a necessity in the family, not just a hobby or art form, though Carmen certainly has
taken her craft to an art form level. From her mother, Carmen learned how to make and design
dresses without patterns, and this led to her channeling her creativity into the process.

In the early 1970s, her family moved to Los Angeles and Carmen went on to study architecture at the
University of Arizona, a field she began working in shortly thereafter. Around this time, she also
immersed herself in the traditions of Mexican folk dance, and formed her own dance group, Danza
Cultura Mexicana, performing, teaching, and making costumes for the group.

Here's my conversation with Carmen Barron.

Carmen, it's great talking to you. I know from reading your bio that when looking at the
description of your work as a costume maker and dancer, I know that sewing definitely came first,
correct?

Carmen Barron: That’s right.

John Floridis: Those 2 things didn't come to be a part of your life at the same time.

Carmen Barron: No, I born in 1960, right? And I've been interested in sewing since I was able to sit in my mom's
lap, 65 years ago, right? Yeah, right So I came first. And because we didn't have a radio in my
hometown. It is very small town. There was no electricity. So, of course, maybe when I was 8 years
old, we have a radio with the batteries. So we start listening to music.

So anyway, when I start walking, I was able to do start like pedaling because it was a pedal
machine, no electricity, you know, like a pedal machine. It was a pedal machine. And then as I was
growing up more, then I was able to to start sewing by myself. But first I was just looking how my
mom was sewing.

And then later when I was at school, we started going to festivities, like the Independence Day, on
the, Plaza in my hometown, Altar, because I born in Atil, but we moved to Altar. So that's where I
grew up, Alta Sonora.

We started going to these festivals in Bandas, the musician used to come to the town. And there
were some musicians also in the town. Uh, that they used to play some traditional songs. That was
my first hearing of traditional music like Harabita Patio. That's what I was wondering how was this
music supposed to be danced, but in my home town, there were no traditional dancers or somebody to
teach those music like the Harabita Patio, which it come from Jalisco, but it travels all Mexico.
So the sewing came first and then when I start dancing is when 1978, that's when I was able to take
classes at Pima College.

We moved to United States in 1973 and then went to junior high, a grade, and then high school, and
then the first time 1978 Pima college. That’s when I saw a big sign saying Mexican folk dance. And
that's when I started. So it's been like 48 years taking dancing and still dancing, kind of still
dancing because is, is, uh, it had to be dancing and teaching at the same time. Actually, I'm
teaching more students to dance, then myself dancing in public.

John Floridis: I see.

Carmen Barron: And so in, uh, I've been teaching since, well, sewing for uh, people like Mexican costumes. I think
it was started in 1978 also for friends who were taking for folkorico dances. So it started slowly,
the making of costumes.

John Floridis: Carmen, when you speak of sewing, one of the things that came to me watching a video about your
work. You had said that sewing is like breathing to you, and I wanted to ask if you could talk
about that. I thought that was very beautiful.

Carmen Barron: Yes. When I'm teaching or sewing for myself I just get into it. And even if that television is uh,
on, I’m not even listening what's going on around me.It's in my mind, it's like talking. Sometimes
I talk to myself, whatever. Like I say, I cannot find my scissors where are my scissors like that
or my needles? Things like that. But the conversation that I have in my mind is how this part of
the costume goes together. And sometimes I do it, put it together, and then I realize I didn't like
it how it looks, so I had to unsew. So all this is going in my mind, and then I had to do it
another way until it gets the looks, or the part of the costume looks better.

So it's constantly designing, and creating in my mind, and then visualizing, because I put it,
like, one portico, like, uh, half in, um, Rococo costume that I'm making for these friends. I was
saying, well, does it look this, uh, lace, does it look better this way, and I put it, with pins,
and then I said, no, let's change it. I wanna try it the other way.

And then so I put it, then I ask my husband, because he's obviously, with me looking at the stuff.
Say, whichever you like better. So he gives me ideas and things, he says this way, but I don't sew
it right away because I'm still not convinced of what I want. So a lot of the complicated designs,
it comes to me. I mean, I can look it clear the next day. The next day, I said, that's it. That's
how it goes. Even I can put myself like in a distance to look at it.

When somebody's painting, they look at from distance, the painting to see if it looks good or what.
So I do, I do use a distance and then let it soak in my mind, go to sleep, and then come to work,
and then I go home and I say, I got it. I, it's a process. It's not…When I'm designing, it's not
like right away. Some things, yes, but complicated, I had to think about it. It's, it's the same
thing because I'm a structural designer, graduated from architect, architecture, and working in
structural engineering, we always have to be thinking.

So I, for me, it's natural to be thinking, even when I was little. I was thinking, looking columns
at that yours, and counting. How many bricks or looking just the pattern of uh, uh, of the stone?
So all my mind was continually working. About designing.

John Floridis: You mentioned your background in architecture. And I wonder, yes, and I wondered if the education
and the work that you did in that field, does that translate to your work in costume design and
dance.

Carmen Barron: Yes, they go together. If you read about costume making, it talks about the history, buildings,
they get influenced by costumes and costumes by buildings. We do a lot of lines, forms.

So it's a lot of, it's very interesting to study architecture of a specific time, and look at how
the costumes were made, all the details, the motif that they are in the building, and and also in
costumes, how they, they go together.

John Floridis: Hmm.

Carmen Barron: It might just, I'm gonna do it just because I feel like doing it. Then you have to study history in
order to make it.

John Floridis: One of the things that really struck me from watching the videos and learning about your work was
the most basic thing, the materials, and how important they are, and how vital they are, and that
it's more than just a material. There's a there's a whole feeling that has to go into it. Do the
materials inspire your creativity, or is it the other way around, where you have an idea, and then
you go find the materials?

Carmen Barron: Um, it works both ways. Like, uh, the song that I'm dancing in Washington, DC, for the National
Endowment for the Arts, award. That, I heard a music that is called Vuela Paloma, and I said, I
love the music. I'm gonna create a costume, a dress. That with doves, and I couldn't find any
doves, uh, fabric. They were so tiny and I said, no, no, no, this is not what I want. So by looking
around, uh, we use a lot of broadcloth, it's like cotton with polyester.

John Floridis: Hmm.

Carmen Barron: But it's not as elegant as the one I use. I use shimmering fabric for that costume particular
costume. So my husband and I went to look for a specific fabric and looking around, it was how many
10 years ago. I look into broad cloth, and I look from, for this shimmering, and I say, well, the
shimmering is too expensive, and my, my husband said, because he's also an architect. He said to
me, “what do you want?” So he draw a flying dove. And I said, “that's exactly what I want.” And he
said, “well”, because I don't have that time to draw, I just give ideas to him. So he makes it
because most of the time I'm sewing. So I get these ideas and he goes or sometimes I draw myself
and then he takes it another step because I don't have that time to do that.

So anyway, we look at those both fabrics and then he said, “well, if I'm going to draw something,
it has to be in better quality of fabric”, which is this one, I know, but it's more expensive. So
he said, “well, but it's going to be worth it.” So I say, “okay,” we decided to buy that fabric.
That's how that dress came out with that particular fabric, which they don't make it anymore.

John Floridis: Hmm, wow.

Um, Carmen, I wanted to ask you if we could go back to talking a little bit more about um, where
you were born and where you uh, grew up and you, you kind of touched on this, but the fact that
your house was a traditional uh, adobe, the floor was dirt, there was no electricity, water came
from a well and that, if I understand correctly, sewing was not just something you did. It was a
necessity.
It was very much a necessity…

**Carmen Barron:**Exactly

John Floridis: And like, and you mentioned that you learned from that, the pedal machine, which, you know, I've
seen those…

**Carmen Barron:**I still have it…

John Floridis: Oh, you still have it?

**Carmen Barron:**I still have it in my car port. Yeah, I still have that it was my grandmothers. It's still works.

John Floridis: Oh, it's beautiful.

**Carmen Barron:**Yeah.

John Floridis: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's wonderful.

**Carmen Barron:**Yeah.

John Floridis: Um, yeah, but can you just talk to us a little bit more about that that upbringing in, um, I know,
Atil is where you were born, but then you grew up in another town, right? In Sonora?

Carmen Barron: Atil. It's very, very nice, small town. That's where my grandmother and uncles and every, everybody
grew up there. Actually, my father, born in California, thrilled them in Los Angeles, and then,
came back to live in Trinchera, Sonora. And then from there they moved to Atil, Sonora, that's
where they stay all the entire life.

So, my mom and dad, they met in Atil because my mom was a teacher and, She went to work in Atil, so
in Altar, they got married, the two of them, they born in Altar, and then they moved back to Atil,
and my sister and myself, we born, and then they moved back to Altar that's where we stay until we
moved to the United States.

But for example, at schools also, they encourage us to do embroidery. Every weekend, we had to take
a little piece of fabric and we start embroidering. So it was something that every single girl has
to learn because it's a part of surviving.

And then from there, I remember doing, I was little, I did a shirt for my brother, just not like
everyday sewing because I was going to school.

And then I did a little dress for a cousin, things like that, that you had to be learning as a part
of life. For surviving. My house was in a cemetery when it used to rain, if you want to know more
about my background of where I used to live.

John Floridis: Yeah.

Carmen Barron: Yeah, it used to rain a lot of those times so that, the graves where the people used to in old
times, I don't know when, what time was, what period or what date was the cemetery there, they used
to open the holes on the ground because of the water and we used to see the dead, the skeletons and
the,

John Floridis: Oh my goodness!

Carmen Barron: In the ground, right? So the water was pouring in, so as soon as it stopped raining, my dad used to
go and fill all those graves. That's why you're not gonna see me painting my face that's a
skeleton, doing procession, that's a skeleton, uh, like nowadays are doing it for a parade for the
Day of the Dead. No. I have a lot of respect. And to me, it's something sacred that you should not
be exposing it like that.

So my group, never gonna be doing that and myself either. So, because for me, it's sacred and they
are resting in peace. Those skeletons that we had to put back into the graves.

John Floridis: Oh my.

Carmen Barron: That's why, when they ask me, “are you going to be in the parade?” Nope, and my students, they look
like, okay, if you want to in a parade, you should join another group, but they stay with me.
Stay with me.

John Floridis: Thank you for sharing that. Boy, I cannot imagine, that would definitely make an impression and,
and, uh, and obviously did very much for you. So thank you for sharing that experience that helps
me kind of go to where you lived and where you grew up and helps me understand how you grew up.So
thank you for sharing that.

Well, it must be very rewarding to be able to pass on the traditions of these art forms to
students, I would think, just the more you talk about it, and I know how much the teaching is quite
a bit of what you do. That's got to be very rewarding to pass those traditions on.

Carmen Barron: I feel very happy to teach the students. I have four students that, four, five, six, whatever. It
depends…That I teach them free. I have one that the mother likes to pay for me. I say, “whatever
you decide, you can pay me.” So she's very consistent, so I go and buy more fabrics.

These other students have done dancing, folklorico dancing. I noticed that one has a group and
since she doesn't have the money to be buying, so she tries to do it and actually I had to make
some of the patterns for her so she can make those costumes. But she doesn't have a, she doesn't,
she's gonna get mad with me…She doesn't put the time to make all the details, so she asked me…”Make
me a pattern, that is not complicated because my show is gonna be next week, and I gotta finish.”

So I had to come up that same idea…But omitting details because I like details a lot.

That's what I do in the structural design details. I just love details.

And another dancers that have been in other groups, they want to learn how to sew, but I'm making
them, forcing them to think, to feel the fabric, to feel how the thing is going to be put together
because if I turn around, they put it upside down and I make them think.

So this is a different kind of students….that I had to make the thing, why the things go together
like that. The other student that makes it very quick…She knows right and left, right? So I had to
go…I don't have to explain her. I don't have to make her think. But these other two, they love it
because they had to undo what they did. They were not supposed to be done like that. And then I
said, “No, it's not that way. So think about it.” And then they start thinking and then say, “oh, I
didn’t…it’s supposed to be done, the embroidering on the other side, not in this side.”

Yep, so even, uh, they show me the take me, they take pictures by phone and then I look at it right
away and I said, “No, that's not the right way. Do it right. Think about it.” Until they come out
with the right idea.

So I'm kind of, uh, calling me with them. Because I had to make them think, but they enjoy it.
That's why I said, “I'm making you guys think”, and they really love it. You know, they love it
that I, they, they're using their brain.

John Floridis: Carmen, can you talk to me about that moment that you found out that you had been selected an arts
endowment national heritage fellow and just talk about some of the feelings you had when you did
find that out?

Carmen Barron: I received a phone call when I was at work that it says Washington, DC, and then I said, I already
have forgotten about that I was nominated by my husband, and then when I saw Washington, DC, and I
said, “Don't tell me that this is about the award!” So I run to my husband and say, “Look, I think
it's something about the nomination you made for me.”

So I already have, I didn't answer the phone because I didn't know at the beginning, right? I was
like doing, finishing some kind of work and then as soon as I uh, she hang out and I said, “I think
I better answer this”, so I run in answer and I got surprised. I just didn't find words had to
express myself. I still cannot believe it. It, it went blank, like I was in shock.

And it was, it's very hard for me to express my feeling about the award but it's amazing. It means
so much to me because my artistic work of sewing and dancing has been recognized nationally, not
just locally or in my house, right?

It was going to give me more support and to, for continue passing down my culture, my sewing, all
the Mexican history that I've been investigating, my traditions, and also is an opportunity, like I
said, to find more about history, like going to travel to Mexico, and then coming to, to teach to
my students, or to the people who really wants to find out why the costumes are made that way. It
will benefit everyone in the United States because I'm passing on the traditional Mexican culture.

John Floridis: That was folk costume maker, and dancer, and 2025 National Endowment for the Arts, Heritage Fellow,
Carmen Barron.

There's a tribute video featuring Carmen on the National Endowment for the Arts YouTube channel.
You can find a link in our show notes or visit arts.gov/slash heritage for more on all of the NEA
National Heritage Fellows.

I'm John Floridis.

Thanks so much for listening.

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