Peniel Guerrier

Peniel Guerrier has dedicated his life to preserving and promoting the rich cultural heritage of Haiti through dance and drumming. Guerrier's passion for understanding dances of affranchise, and rabordaoyi, social dance forms that show European influences in Haitian history, and Vodou ceremonies and traditional practices led him to become a renowned dancer and teacher, recognized internationally for his contributions to the arts.

Guerrier was born in 1971 in the small town of St. Marc, Haiti. Though his parents were strictly Protestant, Vodou dancing, drumming, and songs were everywhere in his neighborhood. Vodou is a faith tradition that mixes Roman Catholicism with spiritual practices brought to the island by African peoples who were enslaved. Even as a child, Guerrier was interested in learning the deeper meanings of Vodou ceremonies and symbolism.

Guerrier's high school teacher introduced him to teaching artists at Haiti’s National Theater, and soon he met Odette Weiner, founder of Ballet Bacoulou. Weiner and others were very impressed by Guerrier’s interpretations of the folkloric and ceremonial dance rituals and by 16, he was dancing professionally in Professor Herve Maxi's dance company, Tamboula d'Haiti. He studied with Maxi at the National School of Arts at Haiti State University before auditioning as a professional artist for the National Theater and dancing with them nationally and internationally for eight years. When Guerrier was on tour with Ballet Bacoulou in the late 1990s, he was noticed by New York-based Haitian dancers Nadia Dieudonne and Joey Nelson who invited him to teach in New York City at Peridance/Djoniba studio. Dance scholars and fellow dancers took note of Guerrier' gift for teaching and created opportunities for him in K-12 and university settings. Sometimes he would teach as many as 400 students per day.

Now a U.S. citizen, Guerrier currently directs two of his own companies, Tamboula d’Haiti and Kriye Bode, which is a community-based dance and drumming colloquium that involves a large-scale thematic performance often on Haitian historical themes. In addition to maintaining his early performance and teaching partnerships with organizations such as Peridance/Djoniba, KONGO Haitian Roots Music, and the “Five Sister” colleges in Western Massachusetts, he has traveled to teach and perform throughout the U.S., Haiti, Canada, China, Germany, Japan, and Suriname. The range of organizations he has worked with also include the Mark Morris Dance Company and Domestic Workers United.

Since 2013, Guerrier has been recognized a record five times as a Master Artist in Haitian Dance/Drumming by the New York State Council on the Arts Folk Arts Apprenticeship program. Through this award program, he has provided year-long intensive apprenticeship trainings for dedicated, emerging traditional artists.

Podcasts

Peniel Guerrier

Haitian dancer, drummer, and educator Peniel Guerrier talks with host John Floridis about the close relationship among music, movement, and community.

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Transcript

John Floridis: Welcome.

This podcast is part of a series highlighting the 2025 National Endowment for the Arts Heritage Fellows, recipients of the nation's highest honor in folk and traditional arts.

I'm John Floridis.

For this podcast, we're going to visit with Peniel Guerrier. Peniel is a dancer, drummer, teacher, choreographer, performer, and educator who has dedicated his life to the research, preservation, education, promotion, and presentation of Haitian culture through music and dance.

Peniel's vision is wide ranging, but focuses extensively on Haitian folklore structure and technique, as well as being heavily inspired by Vodou.

Vodou, not to be confused with the North American term “voodoo”, is a faith tradition which mixes West African spiritual practices brought to Haiti by enslaved people, along with Roman Catholicism. One note here, during our conversation, Peniel enlightens me that in his home country, the word most people pronounce Haiti is pronounced “Ayiti.”

He began his formal dance training in 1987. Subsequently, Peniel danced and toured around the world with the National Dance Theater and Bacoulou Dance Company. It was while on tour in the United States with that latter group that Peniel was noticed by New York-based Haitian dancers who invited him to teach there at the Paradance Geneva Studio.

Peniel now lives in New York full-time, unless teaching and performing throughout the United States, as well as Canada, China, Germany, Japan, and other countries.

Here's my conversation with Peniel Guerrier.

An obvious question to me when I really started dig into your work is when I see drumming and dancing together. I suppose the obvious question is, which of those came into your life first?

Peniel Guerrier: So before I start I always, you know, give respect to the power, like I said, like the sun and the moon. So I salute everyone, so that’s going to be around to listening to this interview and to you, and again, to the whole world.

For myself, you ask me a question about like the drumming, then sing, singing, it's a concept of family we use in Haiti. Drumming, singing, dancing, all three are working together. You need like a mother. Of course you need father. So when you put both together. So the third one would be like the creation. So we call like the child, but it's just like, dancing and drumming and singing. So we can, you know, use one in another. No, all three are working together. Morning, afternoon, and night. It's a family. That's how we work. That's how we do it in Haiti, as a family, and this is all life. All they are working together.

So first, you need that, like the music. Think about like yourself, like your heartbeat. This is like the tempo. It's simple. It's free you get it. But sometimes I didn't even pay attention to it or listen to yourself. But the same thing, it's like you move your body somehow. The same thing for the animal, the same thing for the tree. They have their own tempo. They have their own beat, their own way, they move.

So first you need like the music. Of course, part of like music or dance. There's all the type of like, you know, silence, the answer, so you don't need music, but somehow there's something.

It's a concept of like meditation, connection with, depending like what element you're going to use as a music, but the most important of like tempo, start first with you, from your heart. Second what is about like the sound sound, sound you going to use. So once you have it, it's like, It’s like, okay, I receive it. You say, “Hey!” this “hey”, could be like a sound to move with it toward your body because your body will put it like a vehicle.

The same thing is like the tree moving around with like the air sound or with the fire, or any of, for the animal, the same thing for also. So first you need like the music. A lot of people that dance on beat, or off beat. All of that counts. It's a balance. But music is the first thing.

So I mean, like part of the drum, you have to connect with like the drums because for me, my interpretation, with the drum, the drum wizard, language of God. Because part of like the drum there's two part of it.

First, like the body of the drum will be like the tree, so you cut this tree. So this tree has somehow like there's like an energy from this tree. You never know. It's a mango tree. All of us, we like mango, eh? But you cut this tree, so meaning like you take this life off this tree, but you don't take this life. It's like you transfer it to another level. Because this tree, you'll be able to travel all over to send message because why you have this mango tree, maybe for people on this area.

But these tree when you cut it.you make a drum….This drum's going to be like all over. So again, you're like the animal. So you kill this animal. That's only energy. Because use the skin. For the drum. But part of like the animal. It's like the meat, the milk, all the, all product, the animal you use. And it's still like the skin you use it.

So you have to, the nature, and then like the, mean like the tree, and second, the animal, and the next one missing…It’s about also human, the drummer. This is the third one, all three that represent like the family.

John Floridis: Beautiful. I wanted to ask you more about, um, in your bio, it says, uh, it talks about your passion for understanding dances, and forgive my ignorance. I don't know how to pronounce the, is it a “Afronchise?”

Peniel Guerrier: Affranchi?

John Floridis: Affranchi and….

Peniel Guerrier: Rabordaoyi?

John Floridis: Yeah, yes, yes, yes. And those dances in particular, and I think one of the things I wanted to get to is just the culture behind that. You mentioned the Vodou ceremonies and the traditional practices that led to you being a renowned dancer and teacher, to speak to thatVodou itself and what that is.

Peniel Guerrier: Vodou, it's a way of life. Vodou is everything. So Haiti himself, like it goes the way people they write it down, there's that all part of it, we have to kind of like, clarify because people they use H…Haiti. But Haiti, it's with the A, not H. Ayiti.

John Floridis: Ayiti Ayiti Ayiti

Peniel Guerrier: Ayiti like people there, yeah. Yeah, they use like with the Haiti, but it's with the A. So Haiti, back to 1804, that was like the date we got our freedom. But for me, I don't, we people that use it, that's it all the time, freedom. I don't use concept of freedom. Because freedom we get only one time and it's a fight. You have to protect it. It's you. It's your language. It's your culture. It's your country. It's like everything. The one you're born with. You get it for free. But they always try to get it from you, from society, because the society we live, it’s a fight. You fight for everything. So where is this freedom? First, you have to know yourself to protect yourself, protect your culture, protect your country.

So, Haiti on 1804 we got all independence, just short one on 1804, one plus eight equal nine. Nine plus four equal what?

John Floridis: Thirteen

Peniel Guerrier: Thirteen. So thirteen will represent Haiti. Think about number thirteen. You don't see anywhere in America, meaning like they don't want to talk about Haiti. Thirteen means a lot. This is the number of Haiti. Thirteen now, one plus three equal four, four represents the four elements. This is Vodou. It's about like connection with like the four elements. It's about our self, part of our body, part of like the tree, part of the animal. No matter what, it's part of the four elements. So it's like I call it like universal language.

Nothing with like religion, where you, your background, your color or, hmm hmm…There’s no discrimination. It's like open to all, this is Vodou. Of course, there's different type of season. We have ceremonies. Is the same thing in our lives? So the one you mentioned Rabordaoyi? It's one of the variations. It's part of the agriculture, agriculture, it’s like food. It's about health. It's about everything. That the only thing we need in life. That’s the only thing we work for, for food.

Homeless. They don't have a place to stay, to live, but they need food. The first thing when they wake up, they're working on the street, they need some food. I mean, like food is the most important, like the spirit. We all know, we give respect to, we in short of agriculture we call it Kouzen Zaka. So part of food, I call it like the soup, you feel like the visible and invisible, meaning like a spirit, ourselves. You feel like the animal, you feel like they need the environment like nature. So meaning like this spirit of food, it's really important for all of us. So this is one of the things we use all every day, like, because we eat every day, but the time is a little bit this one, it's on May 1st, we celebrate agriculture then. In Haiti.

John Floridis: Watching a video of you teaching online…Well, actually, it was a video online of you teaching in person, and one of the things that struck me, among many things, was, which I understand now, having met you and having a conversation with you…But this absolute joyon your face while you were doing, while you were doing the teaching. And I thought, how many times has he taught classes before that very moment that I'm seeing right here? You know, and yet that joy comes through your face. Like it was the very first time that you'd ever done this.

Peniel Guerrier: This is the 1st thing we born with, and this is like the magic, but I call it, everyone, when you know it, and then you use it, you share with others, so it's more than like money.

Smiling. It's just like a good welcome. It's about life. It's about like love. It's about like peace. It's about light. This, that's all, how you connect with people, how you respect people, how you work with people together. That's all we need in this life is a beautiful smile.

“Hi”, so you open, so I'm ready to work with you. I'm ready to share time with you. You're welcome. It's my place and it's Haiti. That's how we do it. Welcome everyone. You come to my country, I’m ready to feed you, to work with you, to teach you, to share things with you. That's part of like Haiti.

It's not only one tribe. There's a lot of other tribes that come, and then we find like somehow common ground to create like a unique language or unique culture. But open to all, not like you, you, you not, but it's up to all.

John Floridis: So that joy must be, in part, coming from not only from, obviously it comes from yourself, but to be able to impart that and the sharing of that, and with people who, from the looks of the classes, these are not necessarily people from Ayiti. So you're bringing in people from all different kinds of part, all different life journeys, life journeys, right? And that joy just speaks to what what you were sharing. Does that make sense?

Peniel Guerrier: Of course, like intense classes, so I travel a lot, so music, or dance, or, uh, song singing. It's just like the, it's a bridge to connect with like what I feel about God. You don't have to speak the language, but your body speaks for you, same thing with your instrument. You play it, no matter what people, they're gonna feel it, or this song, the same thing. People are gonna move. It's a universal language, but the most important in terms of like, welcome someone or invite someone or open it up to someone…fist thing it's like light. Love. You can do it. We can do it. That's part of our culture.

John Floridis: I have to imagine that there are challenges in getting people, well, obviously, if they are coming to your class, They are coming to open themselves up, but we all come with different levels of comfort in our bodies and the movement in our bodies. And every person that you're dealing with has their own journey to get themselves to you, to their place where they come to you to open themselves up to share with that.

And so I guess where I'm going with all of that is just how challenging that must be, because you seem like someone who really tunes in to people and tunes into each individual person, I would think that's a challenge to bring all that together and bring all those journeys into that community that you're speaking of from the very beginning.

Peniel Guerrier: Yeah, that's to follow it. First, let them feel comfortable. This is the first thing you have to do. That's part of like beginning on everything. So this is your place. That's how we go. Not a freedom, but it's your place, feel comfortable, you do whatever you want, but with all respect somehow. Just like the way I greet you, the way I welcome you. You feel comfortable, even you make mistake or you don't know how to do it.

But my philosophy, can you walk? Yes, I can walk. Okay, so you can dance. It's like my responsibility to help you to feel like the music and then to let it go and then you do it. In the same time, I'm going to challenge you, challenge it part of life. Every time you do that, you will have, that thing's going to be easy. It's about like time right now, to possess it, and to fill it, and you let it go. So first about like the welcome. You listen. You learn it, you practice it's gonna be like part of you. And then you do it. But the most important as a big picture. Make them feel comfortable. You home.

John Floridis: That's huge. That's huge. It really is! It really is! This is really striking me. The idea that people come into a space where they think, “oh, I'm coming into your space, Peniel.” And you're saying, “No, this is your space.” Because… it makes so much sense. It's so obvious.

Peniel Guerrier: But they all always do it at home. Like when doing shower, they're singing loud, they're dance, because they're on their own, no one's watching me. No, there's people watching you. The invisible, your spirit or the people they're watching you. They're invisible. But you sang for them. You're saying for yourself 1st. So that's how I make them feel confident.

So the next is going to be like stage, of course, or maybe like in the studio. Do the same thing. Of course, you have the foundation from your home, from your bathroom, you practice, the …

John Floridis: Kitchen.

Peniel Guerrier: Kitchen. And of course, the next one's getting on stage. It's gonna be your creation.

John Floridis: I think any artist and particularly performer needs to keep that in mind, because I think that as a performer, there is this sense of like, “Oh, this is a world I've created”, or we've created, if we're a band…I do a lot of performances on my own. But this is what I've created, and yes, you want to welcome people in. You want to bring people into it. But that…what you're talking about is a whole other level. “No, this is… I'm bringing my space, but now it's our space and your space as well…And not have that, I mean, that speaks a lot to the so many of the best performances are ones where that all happens. It becomes a communal space, no matter what the genre is or the art form.

But the way you, the way you said that, I'm going to keep that's, that's going to stick with me.

Peniel Guerrier: No, definitely. It's all three. At the beginning, I mentioned like power, respect, and time.

It's like you have something about what you can share with me. I don't know everything, but I have to open the space to you too. So we have this space we share. Once we share it…It’s like, okay, yeah, we can work together. It's a comfortable family.

John Floridis: Peniel, I have to ask about the teaching and the travel and taking what you do, your art, your passion, your life, everything you do, and taking it to places like Canada, China, Germany, Japan, all over the world, and taking something that is so personal to you, your culture, your world, your space, taking that to these other parts of the world…And what that experience has been like for you to share that with these people who I'm guessing…This is the first time they've come into contact with this particular culture and art and passion. What has that experience been like for you?

Peniel Guerrier: Experience is about like exchange or sharing? “Where you come from?” “What is your culture?” “What is your background, how we can work together?” Because sometimes there's a competition is like, “Oh, you can do this, you can do that. It's not yours. It's mine.” It's about competition life, it's, but what for me, I'm trying to bring or to create like the common ground.

It's like from our culture, from like Haiti or from Vodou, how we put, we bring thing together. So they breach. So it’s like a, bridge, to all over, I travel to. There is a way we find like halfway, like a common ground.

John Floridis: Building that space that we've been talking about with folks from Germany or China or Japan and to be able to bring those together. It seems like the most one of the most beautiful…

Peniel Guerrier: Challenge

John Floridis: … things. Yeah, yes. Oh, for sure. Well, do you want to speak to that? Do you want to speak to some of the challenges?

Peniel Guerrier: Oh, definitely, because it's the Introlac Foundation. That's one thing people that don't want to spend time to build foundation. Of course, it's quite a lot of time, right? To build it, it's like, “Oh, you need money? It's money?” No, we don't need money. We need people with like the power because you have something you can do. Maybe I cannot do it. So we can put it together. We make it happen. Foundation, people that don't want to do it. But this is like the most important.

To build like the foundation. I call it like darkness and then light, it’s a balance. So they want to eat, they don't want to cook.

John Floridis: Right, right.

Peniel Guerrier: At the same time with the society, the society tries, you know, to take advantage of you, to take things from you. You work, you spend money, pay all of them, stuff like that. But it's about yourself.

How often do you think about yourself?

John Floridis: Way too much.

Peniel Guerrier: That's why I always give that an example. You just buy a car. First thing they ask you insurance. So you didn't transfer the car. And about yourself? Do you have insurance for yourself? No. You don't have insurance for yourself, but you have insurance for your car. So the car's more important than you. So, meaning like foundation. It's you first like you what you do. So you're your own boss. You don't work for people, you work for yourself. On your time, on your space. Some day I don't want to go to work, so you stay home. Even of course, there's a deadline. But you decide what you want. These are the best one. I always call like artists they represent God. Because they create.

They create every second all the time. So you travel all over. There is something, like a messenger. So you bring the message to them, how we can do it together.

John Floridis: This has been a wonderful conversation. I'm very honored to get a chance to speak with you.

Peniel Guerrier: So do I. Thank you for your time. Alright. Bless.

John Floridis: Thank you so much. Blessings to you too. Be safe.

Peniel Guerrier: Salud.

John Floridis: Take care.

That was dancer, drummer, teacher, choreographer, performer, educator, and 2025 National Endowment for the Arts Heritage Fellow, Peniel Guerrier.

You can find a link in our show notes or visit arts.gov forward slash heritage for more on all of the NEA National Heritage Fellows.

I'm John Floridis.

Thanks so much for listening.

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